P: Inconsistent JPEG quality with 1-7 slider in Export As

[fuzenco]

Today I update Photoshop to the latest (23.2) and now the Export As dialog does a miserable job on export quality. Even at the highest setting of 7, the pictures saved to web as JPG are _signiciantly_ bad. Just a day before—before I updated—the quality was no problem and the norm of what I had expected for the last few years.

Now, it’s so bad I have to figure out a workaround. This is not good with a week of critical photo work to bang out.

[katayanagi51]

BrettN さん

確認していただき、ありがとうございます。

よろしくお願いします！

[clifton_santiago]

Hi All. I searched, and this issue has been raised, but there seems to be a lot of confusion in the discussions regarding other export options.

I am specifically raising the issue that the Quick Export quality setting for Jpeg only go up to 7 in PS 22.3 and above, which I figure must be a mistake/bug.

I use this feature dozens of times daily to output high-quality full-res jpegs for web publication. Before 22.3, the highest setting was 12, which resulted in a large, high-quality jpeg. However, with the 22.3 update, with the max quality setting of 7, the result is a small, low-quality jpeg that is unsuitable for posting online, imo. I just updated to 22.3.1, and the bug is still present.

Can we please get this fixed? Unless of course it was intentional, which means I will have to use "Export As", instead, which is much slower.

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

Explained here:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/quick-export-to-jpeg-quality-cannot-g...

[clifton_santiago]

Sorry, but that is incorrect. This is why I made my own post. The OP is bringing up my issue, but the "answer" is to use legacy "Export As". There is no legacy option for Quick Export settings.

In other words, my Export As works fine with the legacy option. But my Quick Export settings still only go to 7 maximum quality for jpegs.

[clifton_santiago]

...and additionally, that "7" as maximum, is not equivalent to 100%. The resulting jpeg at 7 is very lossy, with a file size about 2% of what it is at 100%.

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

Please read the quote from the Adobe programmer.

7 is the highest level, it is the same as 100 or Great.

I have compared Export As with values of 7, 100, Great, and Save for Web (Legacy) 100%. They are all comparable. 7 is not worse than the others. Tested in both 2021 and 2022 versions, legacy export on and off.

[clifton_santiago]

Yes, but its not. See below.

[clifton_santiago]

Not sure where my last post went with screen caps, but you are incorrect.

Quick Export of 7 is not the same as Save As 100%

Here is file size proof:

[clifton_santiago]

Sorry, here is the cap with file sizes proving its the same resolution:

[clifton_santiago]

And, visual proof. You can see the lossiness. As one would expect from a file 2% the size of the other.

Export As 100% quality - 200% zoom

Quick Export 7 at 200% zoom:

[clifton_santiago]

Sorry, they both look the same in my last example. This should be the 100%. If it looks lossy its because the forum is compressing it.

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

Please read my post more carefully. I never compared it to Save As, I wrote:

I have compared Export As with values of 7, 100, Great, and Save for Web (Legacy) 100%. 

This is the first time that you have mentioned that you are comparing it to Save As.

[clifton_santiago]

You're quoting the reply from the Adobe programmer on the other thread. Read my OP and all my replies - I always said I was comparing Quick Export to Export As. I never said I was using Save As.

I'm not trying to be confrontational here. I am just demonstrating that there is a bug. Quick Export 7 (maximum) does not equal Export As 100%.  Before version 22.3, Quick Export had a maximum of 12 which equaled Export As 100%, which is why this is a problem or bug.

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

I never said I was using Save As.

By @clifton_santiago

That was my impression from the following quote:

Not sure where my last post went with screen caps, but you are incorrect.

Quick Export of 7 is not the same as Save As 100%

By @clifton_santiago

Anyway, I can't reproduce the issue.

I'm on Mac Big Sur 11.6.5 and I have compared Photoshop 2022 (23.3.0) and Photoshop 2021 (22.5.7).

File sizes are all approx. the same for the various Export As and Save for Web at max. quality settings.

Save As a Copy level 12 has a similar file size, slightly larger (30kb larger).

All look visually the same once the JPEG has been opened layered and compared.

Perhaps somebody else can chime in with their findings...

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

Here is my test file link, the various layers are clearly marked with the method and quality option setting.

The bottom layer is the PSD crop from a raw file that produced the other layers.

https://shared-assets.adobe.com/link/083fa644-e59d-4bd8-52ad-ca0eaa473e50

[clifton_santiago]

Sorry, I did mess up there. In all other cases I said Export As.

I never use Save As for jpeg production. I always use Quick Export for full-size jpeg output, and Export As to specify a 2k version. This is a very handy workflow because if I make changes, I simply quick export for full size, then Export As for 2k again (both of which I have shortcutted). Unfortunately I will have to abandon until this problem is fixed. I will have to use Export As, full resolution, then Export As at 2k resolution. And then go through the process again it each time I make an edit to the PSD file. I do this sometimes hundreds of times a day, so the additional time adds up. Let's hope they don't also screw up the Export As legacy.

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

I think that the jury is still out on this one, there are only two witnesses and they are both providing conflicting evidence. :]

Please take a look at my PSD and compare.

Save your own versions so that we can compare apples to apples.

What OS and version are you on?

Here is what ExifTool reports on each of the saved JPEG files:

[ExifTool]      ExifToolVersion                 : 12.38

[System]        FileName                        : raw-jpg7.jpg
[System]        FileSize                        : 313 KiB
[Photoshop]     PhotoshopQuality                : 12

[System]        FileName                        : raw-saveas12.jpg
[System]        FileSize                        : 345 KiB
[Photoshop]     PhotoshopQuality                : 12

[System]        FileName                        : raw-sfw100.jpg
[System]        FileSize                        : 317 KiB
[Ducky]         Quality                         : 100%

[System]        FileName                        : raw-great.jpg
[System]        FileSize                        : 313 KiB
[Photoshop]     PhotoshopQuality                : 12

[System]        FileName                        : raw-export100.jpg
[System]        FileSize                        : 316 KiB
[Adobe]         DCTEncodeVersion                : 100

[clifton_santiago]

I'm on Windows 10 and Photoshop 23.3.1

Here's the ExifTool data for the two images I posted earlier:

[clifton_santiago]

Here's the whole ExifTool for the Export As (the good one):

[TheDigitalDog]

Quick Export of 7 is not the same as Save As 100%

100% of what? When saving a TIFF (as an example) to JPEG using Save AS... , I can set the highest quality to 12. 

Indeed, on this end, Save As.... 12 (setting above) and Quick Export (7 in preferences) aren't the same. 

But Save for Web (Legacy set to 100) and Save As.... (set for 100) are the same. 

So there are no less than these four options, there is Quick Export, Export As, Legacy Save for Web where 100 IS an option, and Save As... What you wrote above was "Save As".

So what's what here? 

[clifton_santiago]

Yes, great. But I am specifically not asking about Save As or Save for Web, which I don't use and are not helpful for my workflow. I am asking why, Quick Export settings used to be 12 and are now a maximum of 7. As I have established earlier, they are not equivalent. I can no longer use Quick Export, and now have to use Export As exclusively, which is slower. I am not sure why no one can stay on topic with my bug report. Everyone wants to bring in some way of saving that is not the one that is broken. Why is that?

[clifton_santiago]

Okay, not sure why my thread was merged with someone else's, but if that helps solve the problem, then great. Thanks BrettN.

[TheDigitalDog]

Quick Export settings used to be 12 and are now a maximum of 7. As I have established earlier, they are not equivalent.

I can't help you, the only version I have provides a value of up to 7. That is the only location I can set the compression at that scale and actually, I'd far prefer to avoid it and use the 0-100 scale that provides more granularity. 

IF you have some old version that had 12 and it differs from the current setting of 7, how do we know that the older setting wasn't the 'bug'? It could very well be that the newer setting is 'wrong'. 

As to why QE was changed, Brett explained this. He also indicates the old scale was 1-100%, are you saying it was 1-100%, then was zero to 12 and now 0-7? 

"A while back, we changed the default method of using Export As to working with the new UXP-based method. The older CEP-based method (which used to be the default) is now activated by enabling the "Use Legacy" option in Preferences.
 
One of the big differneces between the two methods is the Quality setting for JPG files. In CEP, it used a API which allowed for a 1-100% quality scale, which is similar to the one used by Save For Web. UXP has an API which only allows for a scale of 1-7, which is similar to what is used in Save As. This scale is equivalent to approximately 15-20% jumps on the old scale. So 7 on the new scale is the same as 100% on the old, 6 is around 80%, and so on. Unfortunately, this is not something we can readily change, we are reliant on another piece of technology for this feature and are currently restrained by its limitations. 
 
The 1-7 scale is a more recent UI change, from the old descriptors scale (Poor, Good, Great, etc). We only changed these labels to numbers, to make it easier to understand. We didn't change anything at all about the underlying JPG compression: 7 is exactly the same as Great and so on. 
 
In your screen shots, we see exactly what we expect to see: 7 (from a scale of 1-7) in the new UXP settings ("Legacy" setting is off) is high quality. But 7 using (from a scale of 1-100) in the old CEP settings (Legacy is on) is low quality". 

----

EDIT: I turn off Legacy in prefs, I can now set Quick Export as JPG and  Export As...  to the same scale of 7. The two jpegs are identical pixel for pixel.

[TheDigitalDog]

I'll lastly add for BrettN and the team, part of this 'confusion' could be avoided. Just make 1-100 the scale for JPEG compression everywhere! Yes, Good, excellent, poor was not good. But now we have multiple locations where we can save a JPEG using 1-100 or 1-7, the latter based on yet another preference? What's the harm in having the same scale, with a greater degree of settings granularity, everywhere a user would save a JPEG? Now we have to test if 7 is the same in two means of saving a JPEG (thankfully they are) but there is no correlation in that other area. And 1-7? Where did that come from? Tell us the best feature in Photoshop on a scale of 1-7 <g>.

Anyway, I am not sure if it is big engineering to simply make the scale the same everywhere, and ideally (and historically), 1-100%. Doing so sure would fix a lot of confusion from *some* users no? 

[clifton_santiago]

Look, when I brought up this bug, I thought it was a simple thing. I think I confused things by comparing Quick Export settings vs. Export As settings. I thought what I said made sense, but apparently not to everyone. I think BrettN understood and he acknowleged there was a problem to be fixed.

Lets put it in simpler terms. Before PS 23.3, the Quick Export maximum was 12 for Jpegs. After PS 23.3, the Quick Export maximum is 7. Simples.

And not only does 7 not equal 12 numerically, but the quality output of 7 after PS 23.3 does not equal the quality output of 12 prior to PS 23.3. Its not true that Jpeg quality 7 equals 100% in this case.

Also the Jpeg produced at 7 in post PS 23.3 is only 2.5% of the size of the Jpeg produced at 12 in pre PS 23.3 Jpegs. Obviously the jpeg that is 500k is going to be much lossier than the one that is 80 mb.

Its late here, but in the morning, I will post lossiness comparisons of two images so you can see visually what I am talking about (again), if its still not clear. As well as file size comparisons (again).