Boycott Creative Cloud?

[Mike Wickham]

If you haven't heard, CS6 is the last CS version. From now on, you have to rent your applications via the Creative Cloud. I don't like the new subscription model. I have bought every CS upgrade since version 1, but it looks like CS6 is the end for me, even if it means keeping an old computer around just to run CS6 applications.

Perhaps Adobe would change its mind in a few months if most everyone avoided signing up for the subscription. In any case, they've created a real opportunity for competitors.

[uhanepono]

sounds like you drank the koolaid, Noel...

Noel Carboni wrote:

....

Some years from now when the old version of Photoshop you have is no longer cutting edge and the stuff other people can do with their state-of-the-art software is looking fresh and different, perhaps you'll re-evaluate your choice to avoid the subscription model.  Maybe you won't be able to live without what Photoshop can do then.  Or maybe it will not be good enough even then to entice you to get on the rental plan.  Or maybe a competitor will have shown up.

You seem to want to make this into some kind of emotional thing.  It's just about value.  Adobe's got the goods, and if you want to play you have to pay.  Are goons coming to your house, forcing you to buy Photoshop?

-Noel

[Mike Wickham]

Adobe might say to you in return that you've been showing contempt for them by not buying each new release.  They do all that hard engineering work for years then from you... nothing.

I can't believe you said that. So, if Adobe comes out with a new version that includes features past customers don't need, those past customers should have to pay anyway just to keep using their existing software? Ridiculous! And it appears to be the model that Adobe wants to move to and that you totally support. Shame.

[Noel Carboni]

Kool aid?  Shame?  Here I thought I was conversing with adults.  Clearly some of the subtlety of my points is being lost in the clouds of emotion.

My specific comment about "contempt" was in response to someone claiming Adobe is showing contempt to its customers.  Assuming no one is forcing you to spend your money, the word does not apply in one direction more than the other!

• If you don't feel Adobe is going to come out with features you're going to need, don't join.  Just keep using Photoshop CS6 and don't reward Adobe for not providing you sufficient value.

• If you feel Adobe is going to continue to develop things that will keep you on the cutting edge of image processing - and being there is sufficiently valuable to you -  sign up.

• If you're on the fence, don't sign up, but look a year from now to see what they offer.  Then again the year after that.  Maybe at some point you'll perceive enough value to subscribe.  Or not.

• Or maybe take advantage of the cheap initial $9.99/month offer, send them $120, and use Photoshop CC 14.0 for a year, but then (assuming Adobe isn't adding things you need to Photoshop) just don't renew when it's over and drop back to your Photoshop CS6 perpetual license.

I'm sorry, but this is just business decision-making.  It doesn't seem difficult, and it's not something worth insulting people over.

Over and out from me with this thread.

-Noel

[Brad_Trent]

Over and out, Noel?!! Since your post count on this site is near 21,000, excuse me if I don't believe you're done just yet!

It's not that I don't respect your opinions, but you kind of come off as a guy who really seems to just wanna hear your own voice.

BT

[P4rmR41]

Brad_Trent wrote:

Over and out, Noel?!! Since your post count on this site is near 21,000, excuse me if I don't believe you're done just yet!

It's not that I don't respect your opinions, but you kind of come off as a guy who really seems to just wanna hear your own voice.

BT

This isn't uncommon from the people who support the move. - Take this guy for instance. He uses his online magazine to vent spleen in an article entitled "10 reasons the haters are mad about creative cloud". And then after a few bemused readers, long standing  PS users, express their perfectly reasonable concerns, comments are closed after the commenters are given pretty short shrift from the author.

Just ridiculous. Customers giving feedback on the impact that such a radical change in vending policy will have on their ability to pay for and use very important software, are labelled as 'haters'.

[Mike Wickham]

• If you're on the fence, don't sign up, but look a year from now to see what they offer.  Then again the year after that.  Maybe at some point you'll perceive enough value to subscribe.  Or not.

• Or maybe take advantage of the cheap initial $9.99/month offer, send them $120, and use Photoshop CC 14.0 for a year, but then (assuming Adobe isn't adding things you need to Photoshop) just don't renew when it's over and drop back to your Photoshop CS6 perpetual license.

Noel, that all makes sense, but here's the thing your are not getting. I am not against anyone subscribing and I am already willing to pay money for an upgrade to CS7 because I would like access to the new deblur filter. But I am just not willing to pay $600 per year for the rest of my life to get it. (That's roughly $49/mo.) If I stop paying, the deblur filter GOES AWAY-- even if I have years of subscribing under my belt. Even if I've had every PS/CS version since PS6.  It's not like I could just drop back to using my CS6 perpetual license because it has no deblur filter, and Adobe has said that it will not update/upgrade CS6 to have new features. Except for tweaks to keep CS6 compatible with the current and one next OS, according to Adobe, new features will be CC only.

CS is done. It is now CC. They should have called it FU. Bring back the choice!

[uhanepono]

There IS a plugin/standalone you can use to get non destructive BLUR GALLERY in 13.04; perfect photo suite. You can open layers from within PS6 into perfect photo suite and from there make changes to that layer and then save. It takes you back to ps6 but you can always go back into the plugin and makes changes to that layer non destructively. It's like blur gallery but a plugin. There are many other changes and filters available. You can also use it as a stand alone-app, bypassing ps6 altogether. There are work arounds. I have a feeling that if adobe does not relent developers will come up with more plugins for ps6 that will make up for those absent CC funtions.

<quote>

Mike Wickham wrote:

........ It's not like I could just drop back to using my CS6 perpetual license because it has no deblur filter, and Adobe has said that it will not update/upgrade CS6 to have new features. Except for tweaks to keep CS6 compatible with the current and one next OS, according to Adobe, new features will be CC only.

CS is done. It is now CC. They should have called it FU. Bring back the choice!

<end quote>

[Mike Wickham]

uhanepono wrote:

There IS a plugin/standalone you can use to get non destructive BLUR GALLERY in 13.04; perfect photo suite.

That does the opposite of what I'm talking about. The new feature I'm talking about takes a photo that is blurry from camera shake or object motion and sharpens it as if shot from a tripod. See the "Camera Shake Reduction" video on this page:

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/features.html

or last year's sneak peak video on this page:

http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2011/10/behind-all-the-buzz-deblur-sneak-peek.html

That's a new feature, available in CC, that I could use sometimes. But I would have to subscribe for the rest of my life to use it on a regular basis. Ridiculous.

[gener7]

Mike Wickham wrote:

Noel, that all makes sense, but here's the thing your are not getting. I am not against anyone subscribing and I am already willing to pay money for an upgrade to CS7 because I would like access to the new deblur filter. But I am just not willing to pay $600 per year for the rest of my life to get it.

The full CC with access to all the software is $50 monthly. If all you want is Photoshop, it will be $20 monthly.

[Mike Wickham]

gener7 wrote:

The full CC with access to all the software is $50 monthly. If all you want is Photoshop, it will be $20 monthly.

I knew that, but Photoshop is not all I want. I have CS6 Design and Web Premium. I need Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, and Acrobat at minimum. So it looks like the $50 per month option is the only one available going forward (except for 1st-year discount to existing CS users).

[pf22]

Mike Wickham wrote:

I knew that, but Photoshop is not all I want. I have CS6 Design and Web Premium. I need Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, and Acrobat at minimum. So it looks like the $50 per month option is the only one available going forward (except for 1st-year discount to existing CS users).

Well here's an interesting development... I work in IT Sales and was told yesterday by Adobe that anyone who joines Creative Cloud for Teams at the promotional price of $480pa between today, 05/21/13 and 05/31/13 - that's right you only have 10 days! - will get the 2nd year locked in at the same promotional price of $480! The offer is open to anyone running CS3 and above.

I cannot see this extended offer anywhere on the Adobe website, but we were told in person by Adobe yesterday, and are promoting it to our professional clients.

[*Photonic]

pf22 wrote:

Well here's an interesting development... I work in IT Sales and was told yesterday by Adobe that anyone who joines Creative Cloud for Teams at the promotional price of $480pa between today, 05/21/13 and 05/31/13 - that's right you only have 10 days! - will get the 2nd year locked in at the same promotional price of $480! The offer is open to anyone running CS3 and above.

Well that's goes to show that Adobe still isn't listening.

It's the little guy screaming about the cost of CC, not corporate. It's individuals, almost 23,000 now, that are signing the petition against the CC model. It makes you wonder if there is anyone awake at the wheel. Go figure.

[pf22]

*Photonic wrote:  It's the little guy screaming about the cost of CC, not corporate. It's individuals, almost 23,000 now, that are signing the petition against the CC model. It makes you wonder if there is anyone awake at the wheel. Go figure.

Agreed, I'm one of those "little guys" not earning a living from my Photoshop use, but apart from the cost, personally, I'm NOT renting software while I still have the option to run the software I own!

But on a brighter note, this does mean that Mike above now has the option of getting 2yrs of CC @ $40 a month, instead of 1yr @ $50, before the price goes up!

[P4rmR41]

Noel Carboni wrote:

P4rmR41 wrote:

I have owned: PS 4, 5, 7, CS2, CS5 and now CS6, (would have been CS7 or 8 were it not for this creative cloud stunt), very likely the last version of PS I will use. I need to own my tools not rent.

Isn't it clear?  You're not the customer Adobe wants.  They want customers who upgrade to every new version, the day it's released.  Those folks clearly get more value from Photoshop and are giving more to get that value.

Of course it's clear. They've got their wish haven't they. I'll be buying new hardware this year and if my current 2008 Mac Pro is anything to go by, then the CS6 that will be residing on it, will be good for at least four to six years.- I'm happy for those who find value in every upgrade, that's always been the customers choice; Pay for new features or make do with what you currently own.

Adobe might say to you in return that you've been showing contempt for them by not buying each new release.  They do all that hard engineering work for years then from you... nothing.  Do you provide a web site where they can complain about your poor support?

They might say that. - But that's the thinking you get from an entitlement culture. I don't owe Adobe a living. I have paid for every version of Photoshop I've owned, I'm the customer. So I get to decide what's worth spending my money on. They have my e-mail address and are very welcome to send me promotional material to try and pursuade me, no problem with that.

Some years from now when the old version of Photoshop you have is no longer cutting edge and the stuff other people can do with their state-of-the-art software is looking fresh and different, perhaps you'll re-evaluate your choice to avoid the subscription model.  Maybe you won't be able to live without what Photoshop can do then.  Or maybe it will not be good enough even then to entice you to get on the rental plan.  Or maybe a competitor will have shown up.

Who knows what will happen years from now - Perhaps the few hundred quid every few years, from me and all the other customers on variable incomes who've been pushed out by this move, will be missed. Possibly, Adobe might issue a 'welcome back to the fold' offer, that we cannot refuse : )

Are goons coming to your house, forcing you to buy Photoshop?

-Noel

Quite the opposite. - they're forcing me not to buy Photoshop. - Do you get it yet?

Nice talking to you.

[pf22]

Jeff Schewe wrote:
So, was this a rational outrage? Or is he just outraged at change? There's a difference...

I would say "rational." Like many out there, he doesn't want to "rent" the software he depends upon to earn a living, he wants to own it. And like all pro-photographers, he started out as a hobbyist, and is disgusted by the "you stop payin' you got nuthin'" component of CC. He also laughed at Adobe's promises of endless development and new "stuff," he'd just like them to fix the bugs and issues that have been in the software release after release. Unfortunately he's a hard-core Mac user and knows that at some point he'll have issues with his OS and CS6, so he's seriously thinking about maintaining one of his current CS6 workstations when he moves to CC, as he knows he'll have to eventually. He sounds perfectly rational to me!

[Kuttyjoe]

I agree.  The problem is the lack of competition.  What happens though if Adobe suddenly vanished?  All of us who currently absolutely depend on their products, what would we do?  I know lots of other software but there's a reason why I don't use them.

[lucretius3]

I loathe subscriptions.  Adobe can count me out.  Can I still buy an upgrade of PS CS6?

[uhanepono]

Adobe is more of an environment than an app. We have to leave that environment to see that it's so and to know there are plenty of other apps that do the same things and then some.

cobbling together all of Photoshop functions in other apps.

For HDR = photomatix (better than ps!) and others

For photo retouch and efects, (bokey, b&w etc) = Perfect photo suite (as a stand alone) , gimp, photoline, pixelmator and others

For panoramas = hugin, and others

for general photo manipulation = photoline, gimp, pixelmator and others

For painting and art = corel painter, art rage, and many others.

Most of these apps open PSD files and some even will save in that formal if it's what you want. Tifs are a better bet.

[Brad_Trent]

While I appreciate the sentiment, professional photographers don't work in a world like you describe. We work with designers, retouchers and collateral industry professionals who all use Adobe products. Jumping from Corel to Gimp to Pixelmator is hardly a solution.

[uhanepono]

True that. I am hoping adobe relents, myself. I do like to have those capabilties like you. They are, though, what make adobe suites an environment rather than a collection of apps. They can hold an entire workflow hostage for the same reason. This move to cloud only use makes many uneasy and, therefore, on the lookout for alternatives. I am sure developers will step forward with alternatives that play nice together. This is natural selection at work. Nature being the mother of invention. I will continue with my copy of PS6 for as long as it suits my needs and is viable on my future OS config.  I already use some of the apps I mention above for various things, like the great HDR engine, photomatix. I get used to importing and exporting from to different apps to complete a project. I work alone though and have that latitude. I understand your dilema, being a team player, needing to work in tandem seamlessly with others. It's early days yet. I wait and watch. 

Brad_Trent wrote:

While I appreciate the sentiment, professional photographers don't work in a world like you describe. We work with designers, retouchers and collateral industry professionals who all use Adobe products. Jumping from Corel to Gimp to Pixelmator is hardly a solution.

[Kuttyjoe]

Boycott Adobe and use what?  Corel products? The truth is, there's no program in the world like Photoshop.  Adobe has the market leading software in a number of important segments so if you boycott Adobe, you will make your own work much harder if not impossible.  I've tried quite a few programs over the last several years and nothing is nearly as good as Adobe products.  Generally, nothing even comes close.  Photoshop has no competition. Illustrator has some competition like CorelDraw.  There are possibilities there but you'll become incompatible with the rest of the world and never properly open a pdf file without either Illustrator or Acrobat.  So while I agree with you that I've no interest in simply paying Adobe for the rest of my career, I haven't found anything more than one off programs that I can use for some isolated creative work.  But it still gets processed for production/printing with Adobe products.  Until someone steps up and tries to compete with Adobe, a lot of us are stuck.

[444333222111]

@kuttyjoe

So you are nothing without Adobe? You are not a creative artist, designer or photographer unless you have Adobe Cloud to back up your work?

Just stick with it sign up and enjoy the ride then dont question anything its all OK.

[Kuttyjoe]

Replacing Photoshop is the challenge.  I started looking for ways to replace Photoshop 5 or 6 years ago.  I already know how difficult this is.  I'll have to give up a large degree of power, speed, convenience, tools, reliability, etc.  Photoshop is just too far ahead of everything else.  Giving up these things means taking longer to get the same work done.  That means a loss of income if I can't figure out how to maintain the same speed without the same quality products.  Or, you can take the risk that you will always be able to pay Adobe every month. And that you'll be willing to keep paying them even if you're no longer making a living with their products.

[444333222111]

Corel Draw has a nice vector art program which I like better than illustrator.

Ive never gotten into Corels paint/photography offering but its about time I look back into other software.

[444333222111]

You will be assimilated! Question nothing why ask why there is no choice its the wheel of life.

To get right at the heart of the matter it feels suspiciously like Adobe has made the paradigm shift from we are here to serve you as our customers to...  our customers are here to serve us and do what we say... we could care less about what you think.