Boycott Creative Cloud?

[Mike Wickham]

If you haven't heard, CS6 is the last CS version. From now on, you have to rent your applications via the Creative Cloud. I don't like the new subscription model. I have bought every CS upgrade since version 1, but it looks like CS6 is the end for me, even if it means keeping an old computer around just to run CS6 applications.

Perhaps Adobe would change its mind in a few months if most everyone avoided signing up for the subscription. In any case, they've created a real opportunity for competitors.

[Hudechrome]

My answer:

Ignoramus

Illegitimate

noncarborundum

[Mike_Ornellas]

This is a more realistic view of the short term profit / loss of for Adobe stock holders.

[bababonga]

They will wait to end of 2013 when there are no longer advantages for their longtime users. They already granted stack-holders, that there will be loses to the end of the year (and the period to catch their customers in dependency). At the end of the year they have the point to make the bill. For the moment everything is based on estimations.

At the end of 2013 they will see how many dependent they have. Till that moment Adobe will not change anything (I take every bet). And if the results will show (and stack holders will SEE) they are under their targets, may be they think about to change their "cloud" a little bit and make a second run one or two year later. OR they reached their targets and then the prices of the "Try to cath" period will change to the "Now we got them" prices. (I think the file-formats will become incompatible at that point too, as there is no written guarantee for their customers). From there on the amount of CC-users is dictating the price, as there is no other income for Adobe.

My suggestion: Keep your CC alive as long as they let you and as you can. Be careful with updates (they might not always change to something better - keep copies). And look for alternatives. Don´t trust monopolists.

I´m realistic enough to know the evil will survive, but a small hope is, that the stock market prices of Adobe went nearly 10% down since May 6th and nearly 12% below the rising NASDAQ. Seems, that some Investors inform themselves about what´s happening here. But I also heard, that MS takes influence into Adobe with stack and people in the management board. And that makes sense. As I think, MS will not wait for long to make Office 365 a non option model, if the Adobe move will have success.

And even Windows "cloud" might become reality. First connecting your bank account and then starting up, if...

I am of the opinion, that this should be forbidden by law.

As Adobe seems to be not listening to all their users: I advice, no I beg: Keep your legal CS6 Suites alive as long as you can!

[mzocoh]

bababonga wrote:

" . . . But I also heard, that MS takes influence into Adobe with stack and people in the management board. And that makes sense. As I think, MS will not wait for long to make Office 365 a non option model, if the Adobe move will have success.

And even Windows "cloud" might become reality. First connecting your bank account and then starting up, if...

I am of the opinion, that this should be forbidden by law.

As Adobe seems to be not listening to all their users: I advice, no I beg: Keep your legal CS6 Suites alive as long as you can!"

Thank you bababonga for considering what this will likely mean in the future! We need people like yourself, who think ahead.
I agree, that software rentals with no other option should be outlawed (or software rentals in general, preferably) - especially
as concerns the OS! I've been an IT pro for 18 years now, and this is the scariest thing I've seen happen, as I know what it
means in the long run. I plan to be extremely vocal about stopping this, while there's time!

Please - everyone who cares  - try to make it plain to everyone what this move means for the future & spread the word on social media.
Again, here's the link to the change.org petition . . .
https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate- the-mandatory-creative-cloud-...

[vh_5150]

If Adobe wants us to believe, or if in fact it is true, that there are all of these thousands of users already on board the Creative Cloud, then their revenue stream is already beyond belief. Therefore, the Creative Cloud subscription, if Adobe will not go back on it, is reasonable ONLY if the price for the suite of products drops dramatically. Here is what could be considered reasonable, given if what Adobe says is true about its user base: Offer the entire suite of products (as in the CS6 Master Collection) for a flat $199/year fee. Yes, that's right—$199.  That, Adobe, I would go for. Until then, you have alienated scores of users and corrupted yourself.

I would also argue that it would be fair to offer a perpetual license for what would be, say, every second-to-third version or so of what would be a traditional new release. However, since there is no such thing anymore as the applications are updated so regularly through the Cloud, there would have to be a determination as to what constitutes a new version release. Perhaps every 2 years?  Why not keep offering the download with perpetual license with the option to upgrade your perpetual license say, 2 years after the users' install date?

Bottom line, Adobe, there are fair ways to go about doing business.

[BKKDon]

Hi,

The question here, as a photographer, is do we want Adobe to restrict access to our creative efforts .... yes we may well use Lightroom and Photoshop to finalise the creations but the IP is ours.

If we have to use the CC at some point in time our subscription runs out and we have no access to our finished product in order to edit and change unless we renew the subscription.  Part of this has been bought about by the fact that Adobe is subject to massive piracy of software ... but, especially on windows this is their own fault as if you have access to a legitimate ID you can redirect the HOSTS file to a the localhost and never have your serial checked.

This is ADOBE's problem and won't be solved by the CC! And there are many professionals whose advice on this forum is undeniably so valuable to us who simply use the features to improve our photography in the digital darkroom ... but they also make a living from addons to Photoshop so there is a general trend towards saying there should be a photographers suite in the CC.

There is NO WAY WE WANT A PHOTOGRAPHERS SUITE/PRICING in the CC ... we want to control our own IP not to have it "owned" by Adobe.

Might I remind Adobe of a statement using their words:

“We believe in fighting piracy of software by making the right software for the right people at the right price,” said Adobe’s David Wadhwani.

Well Adobe LISTEN! And remember these words ... get your security right and give us what we want ... the right to choose our own destiny because, mark my words, another software developer will step into the breach.

Remember we know, from various people who develop addins for PSE like Elements XXL, that you can provide what we need and turn off the bloatware.

Regards, Don

[msqrddd]

No sane (or, rather, competent) business owner would sign a contractual agreement for a service that has this in its Terms of Service:

6. Use of Service and Materials

[...]

6.4 Adobe may modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Services or Materials, or any portion thereof, with or without notice. You agree that Adobe shall not be liable to you or anyone else if we do so.

This reminds me of the "HumancentIpad" episode of South Park: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ23kosLFec

[Greg_Bohn]

It's amazing what many companies have in their click-through "user agreements". Some are outrageous. I believe one had a purposely outrageous section saying you gave them your soul to see if anyone noticed...

  But if you really read them, you have to wonder what they plan on doing to require your acceptance of such outrageous terms.

  Looking at my Cell phone contract I think it basically said that I agreed that (in effect) if one of their salespersons purposely beat me to within an inch of my life with my cell phone, they were only obligated to pay at most $25.00 in compensation .

  It really has sections that explicitly say that I agree not to hold them responsible for willful fraud on their part.

  It seems in many cases they hope you'll just agree to anything they put in front of you, expecially if you have little choice. It's only later that they come to harvest your organs... .

[444333222111]

It really has sections that explicitly say that I agree not to hold them responsible for willful fraud on their part.

Well if you dont like the phone and they are beating you up get a new phone. Where do we get a new photoshop?

[Mike_Ornellas]

If you were charged lets say the same price that you pay for CS as you would for CC in the usual turn of a new release of 18 months, would that be more palatable for Adobe users?

The backlash for CC is more of " I'm not sure what the future brings along with the complications of the new business model for users"

OR

"Why am I paying more for a new upgrade?"

If Adobe were smart, they would simplify the subscription to equal CS6 pricing and charge on an 18 month cycle. As of now, they are just going to screw themselves with pissed off users.

[444333222111]

If you were charged lets say the same price that you pay for CS as you would for CC in the usual turn of a new release of 18 months, would that be more palatable for Adobe users?

First off I dont like the idea of Adobe holding my credit card information indefinately. Their great at graphics but I have no idea how there security is on my credit card information.

Second: I want my software to work if I get hit by a bus and cant afford the monthly premiums for six months.

Third: I think as some people have mentioned there should be a cut off. If I pay for the cloud for x amount of months then I am entitled to that release forever because I have payed the money for it. Realistically from a programming view I dont see how that is ever going to happen.

Fourth: I would like to see a little more respect from Adobe for there customer base. Basically I feel like a drug mule for their bottom line.

[Mike_Ornellas]

>>>First off I dont like the idea of Adobe holding my credit card information indefinately. Their great at graphics but I have no idea how there security is on my credit card information.<<<

Then a Paypal option should be offered along with other options. If you really look at it, ebay also has a strangle hold on their customers when the forced every one to go the Paypal route. This was more for securing transactions, but in the end, it forced users to work within their structure or not use them.

>>>Second: I want my software to work if I get hit by a bus and cant afford the monthly premiums for six months.<<<

You don't have a say in that decsion.

>>>Third: I think as some people have mentioned there should be a cut off. If I pay for the cloud for x amount of months then I am entitled to that release forever because I have payed the money for it.<<<

Well, that ain't gonna happen....

>>>Fourth: I would like to see a little more respect from Adobe for there customer base. Basically I feel like a drug mule for their bottom line.<<<

With every crack pipe, you get a free bowl full. The rest is on your tab.

[444333222111]

With every crack pipe, you get a free bowl full. The rest is on your tab.

Brilliant!

[Mike Wickham]

If you were charged lets say the same price that you pay for CS as you would for CC in the usual turn of a new release of 18 months, would that be more palatable for Adobe users?

NO. Absolutely not!

Look at it this way. In the past, when a new version of Photoshop came out, you could pay an upgrade fee to have access to new features and you would have that access virtually forever.

Now, with CC, you not only have to pay a much higher fee (over the same 18-month period) to get access to those new features, but when the 18 months is up, you have to keep on paying the exhorbitant fee FOREVER just to keep using those same new (but now old) features. Even if you don't need or want any FUTURE new features, you have to keep paying to keep what you already have. FOREVER. Or you lose it.

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! Stop paying, and you not only lose access to the new features you subscribed to, Adobe will turn off your ability to use the old features as well (assuming you started with CC, not CS). They TURN OFF your CC software altogether. You're done. You're screwed. You've got no software left. Why is anyone saying this is a great choice? Why would anyone DOWNGRADE to such a system?

[444333222111]

You've got no software left. Why is anyone saying this is a great choice?

Its possible we need better educational institutions.

We need to teach everyone the new math

[Mike_Ornellas]

I here you and agree, but the company needs to stay alive at this point. The ship has sailed and the wind is not at their back anymore.

This is about a corporation that needs to not only stay afloat, but also meet profit targets. This decision is monetary.

Think of your new software environment as a cell phone contract. You don't pay, you don't have.

Adobe can change the usage rights to their product at any time. Financial institutions do this all the time with investments. Your rights are going to change.  If you don't agree to them, you don't use.

It's a pretty simple model.  Like it or not, you don't have a choice but to pay and use or not to pay and don't use.

If this damages the company, then clearly Adobe is ready to take on that battle.

[444333222111]

Adobe can change the usage rights to their product at any time. Financial institutions do this all the time with investments. Your rights are going to change.  If you don't agree to them, you don't use.

Yea and I can decide not to use it. I dont consider buying software to use a proper analogy to "Financial institution" investments.

These guys aint hurting. What was profit at the last report?

Hello anyone know what the profit was for the past year?

O gosh they look really strapped for CASH. Yes we should help adobe survive it looks like they need our help.

Fiscal Year 2012 Financial Highlights

• Adobe achieved record revenue of $4.404 billion.  Annual GAAP diluted earnings per share for fiscal 2012 were $1.66, and annual non-GAAP diluted earnings per share were $2.35.

[caupwhiting13]

This is their 2012 second quarter projected earnings.

Financial Outlook

For the second quarter of fiscal 2012, Adobe is targeting revenue of $1.090

billion to $1.140 billion. On a diluted earnings per share basis, the

company is targeting a range of $0.37 to $0.43 on a GAAP basis, and $0.57 to

$0.61 on a non-GAAP basis.

Adobe is targeting its Q2 share count to be between 502 million and 504

million shares, and it is targeting non-operating expense between $19

million and $21 million. Adobe's tax rate is expected to be approximately

23.5 percent on a GAAP basis and 22.5 percent on a non-GAAP basis

[Mike_Ornellas]

Oh well,

I guess you better join the cloud then so you can help support the company's existence as well as let the stock holders retire comfortable.

This is capitalism at its best.

[Hudechrome]

You want to fight corporate greed, apparently.

You have a tool, or rather, we do. It's called Congress. Vote in the right people and let them have at it.

But even then, If you are king of the hill you can charge what the traffic will bear. (Intel vs AMD)

[Hudechrome]

I agree completely.

Look at it this way. It's crapshoot. If Adobe goes under, then we are saddled with software that, at the next turn of camera offerings, we are done. Either system. With the Cloud, the chances they go under drop significantly, (imo anyway.) but if you stop paying you lose.

It's like life insurance. They are betting you will live, you are betting you will die.

[444333222111]

Adobe is too "Big" to fail. Someone will step in you can count on it.

As far as their financials go seems odd every one might think they are in a hard place. You cant run a company on 2 billion dollars a year?

[Mike_Ornellas]

Not if you belong to the vampires club that expects a meal every month.

Stock holders expect a return on the investment and that is what's driving this decision. Not the creatives that make the software.

[444333222111]

Stock holders expect a return on the investment and that is what's driving this decision

Looks there gonna kill the golden goose. Its there company god forbid thinking about customers in these decisions.

[Ed.Macke]

A couple of random thoughts:

• After many years on the "Elements" versions, I finally saved my pennies to buy the real deal Production Premium CS6. Just a couple of months after I did, they pulled this Cloud stunt - my luck never works out like that! Usually I'd be the schmoe who saves up enough to buy it only to have Adobe say "Buy? Did you mean 'Rent'?"
• If Adobe is going to send me a monthly bill for a monopoly product that they'll shut off when I don't pay, shouldn't they be regulated like other utility companies?
• Do you remember years ago when the brilliant minds at Coke said "hey, since we've got the single-best selling beverage in the history of the planet, you know what would be a good idea...New Coke! It's kind of the same as Old Coke, except for the fact that people don't really like it. But no matter, you know what would be an even better idea? Let's stop making the Old Coke! Ha! We'll all be rich!!". Just sayin'... were the Adobe folks all sleeping the day they went over that Case Study Of Corporate Stupidity in their business classes?
• I like learning new things, so I suppose one silver lining with the Cloud model is every few months I will have the opportunity to re-learn something with the new version!
• To the poster who said instead of "Photoshop CC" they should have called it "Photoshop FU"... ha! I want to have a beer with you!
• I could definitely see a precedent being set where other software companies start salivating over Adobe's endless cash cow model. I kind of shudder at the thought of having to pay a monthly bill for all of the software I currently own. Maybe they could make it easier and we could just have our paychecks electronically transferred to a software clearinghouse to pay for all of our cloud subscriptions. I just wish they'd buy us dinner first, if you know what I mean...

Having said all that, I'm not entirely opposed to a cloud subscription. In terms of value, to pay $50/month for essentially the Master Collection doesn't seem that awful when you compare it to my freaking $250/month cell phone bill that gives me access to Google maps and Angry Birds. Of course, I'd only be paying the $20/month because I didn't have kids just to mow the lawn, I also had them so I could get Academic Pricing.