colour mismatch between illustrator & photoshop

[Sarah27866537cpwc]

Can anybody help me achieve a colour match between Photoshop & Illustrator please? I have synced colour settings via Bridge, checked matching colour profiles in both programmes, checking both using CYMK and used the same colour hexcode. The colours are still miles apart. Please see attached screenshot for reference. Any help would be appreciated! 

[D Fosse]

Is there an embedded document profile in both and which is it?

[Sarah27866537cpwc]

Would you be able to tell me how to check that? Both of these documents
were just created as brand new test files rather than importing any
embedded graphics so they shouldn’t be affected by any embedded profiles
should they? I’m a novice so I’m not sure! I’ve always had this issue with
illustrator / photoshop. Incidentally, the colours in photoshop match
perfectly when I convert an illustrator file to PDF. So I’m assuming the
issue lies with illustrator somehow?

[D Fosse]

Always make sure there is an embedded profile! No exception. That's what defines the color. Without a profile, it's undefined and unpredictable.

[Sarah27866537cpwc]

Ahh yes, the colour profile in both programmes is set to Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004). It even tells me that my Adobe programmes are colour synced in Bridge. I appreciate your help!

[D Fosse]

Your color settings aren't relevant. They are just defaults for new documents and missing profiles.

• Is there an embedded color profile in each document? The embedded profile overrides your working space. There has to be an embedded profile to define the color.

See my screenshot again.

[Sarah27866537cpwc]

I think they both match? Is there somewhere else I need to check? 

 

[D Fosse]

What is the actual color input in each of these two documents, where did the numbers come from?

You say "hex code", which indicates it started as RGB, but which RGB? sRGB? Adobe RGB? ProPhoto? How did it go from RGB to CMYK (and specifically FOGRA39)?

A hex code does not define a color. It's just base 16 notation for ordinary RGB numbers - and numbers are color space specific. Any given set of numbers will yield different colors in different color spaces.

In short - this is why you always need to keep track of your color profiles. Make sure profiles are correctly converted every step of the way.

[c.pfaffenbichler]

Can you provide the two files? (edited)

[davescm]

Hi

A couple of things that can catch people out is that:

a. Although the application colour settings can be identical, as D Fosse mentioned above, when opening an existing document then the profile for that document will override those settings.

b. When entering Hex codes in both Photoshop and Illustrator and using a document with a CMYK profile, the hex code entered is referenced to the default RGB colour space set in colour settings for the application. It is then converted in the application to the document CMYK profile. This means that, if the RGB defaults differ (even though the documents in use may be the same CMYK profile)  then the conversion will differ. Most web sources that quote Hex codes do not even show which colour space their numbers refer to, but if you set both applications to sRGB as the RGB default then it should be safe. This is a reason why Hex codes are not a magic bullet for consistent colour even within an application.

If you start out with defaults for RGB and CMYK that match and document profiles that match then colour should be displayed consistently between AI and PS.

Dave

[NB, colourmanagement net]

@davescm "This is a reason why Hex codes are not a magic bullet for consistent colour even within an application."

You can say that again Dave, why Hex codes are bandied about as "colour reference values" in this day and age escapes me.

ICC profiles are in very common use of course - Adobe applications have fully implemented ICC profiles since PS5 in 1999. As you write, entered hex codes may match, but if the RGB colourspace differs, then the colour will not match visually. Hex codes are no more unequivocal than RGB numbers - both Hex and RGB  require an associated ICC RGB profile to have any real visual meaning. 

@Sarah27866537cpwc You can read more about ICC profiles here

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
Help others by clicking "Correct Answer" if the question is answered.
Found the answer elsewhere? Share it here. "Upvote" is for useful posts.

[NB, colourmanagement net]

@davescm you are right about Hex colour appearance being affected RGB settings, of course, but looking up the thread, it seems this may perhaps not be at the root of @Sarah27866537cpwc 's issues - since it seems like Sarah may have had her application color settings matched already (with sRGB and coated FOGRA 39 set in both applications) .

@Sarah27866537cpwc if you didn’t already have color settings that way [like your screenshots] when the error occurred please re-test now, @davescm has explained how further down this thread. 

Could it be something to do with the other settings in Illustrator e.g. preserve color numbers? I wouldn’t have thought so though.

neil barstow, colourmanagement net

[davescm]

What we don't know is whether those settings were that way before the documents were created. So as a test it would be worthwhile:

a. Set the colour settings to match (with RGB set to sRGB and CMYK to Fogra39).

b. Create a new document in PS and a new document in AI, both using the Fogra39 profile

c. Create a rectangle in both and fill it with the same colour (making sure the colour is within the gamut of Fogra 39).

Both should match.

Dave

[NB, colourmanagement net]

@davescm "What we don't know is whether those settings wer that way before the documents were created. So as a test it would be worthwhile"

true, I did realise that - I'll edit to make it clear - that's definitely a test @Sarah27866537cpwc should do

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
Help others by clicking "Correct Answer" if the question is answered.
Found the answer elsewhere? Share it here. "Upvote" is for useful posts.

[Sarah27866537cpwc]

I really appreciate the time everybody is taking to help me. Unfortunately the issue persists. Both of the documents were newly created once both RGB & CYMK colour profiles were matched. They were both created in CYMK and I have now just tried again using the CYMK colour picker rather than the hexcode as advised below. Again I started afresh and created two new documents rather than converting. I'm still getting a mismatch. As @c.pfaffenbichler suggested, I have provided the two documents so if anybody is able to take a look and tell me where I'm going wrong I'd be eternally grateful!

[Sarah27866537cpwc]

Sorry, heres the AI version as well 🙂

[Sarah27866537cpwc]

Oh it actually won't let me upload the AI version 😞

[davescm]

Can you upload the AI version to dropbox or similar and give us a link to it?

Dave

[Sarah27866537cpwc]

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rew9hboctbal850yj6ywe/AI-colour-test.ai?rlkey=5yjepi0cglv0zw8063sei3x... 

Does this work?

[davescm]

Hi Sarah,

The colours in both of those documents (psd and ai)  look identical here on calibrated and profiled Eizo monitors.

Of course they should look the same, as they both show identical numbers in CMYK 40,27,42,09 and have the same FOGRA39 profile.

If they look different on your screen, I wonder if there is an issue with your monitor profile. Do you use a monitor calibration/profiling tool?

Dave

[D Fosse]

Yes, if the numbers and document profiles are the same, but they still display differently in the two applications - then the conversion into the monitor profile is failing in one or both of them. That's by definition.

The actual conversion of the document numbers into the monitor profile is executed in the GPU nowadays. That means it can either be a defective monitor profile or a GPU bug, or perhaps even both. It can sometimes be hard to tell. A marginal profile can cause the GPU to fail, and vice versa.

A quick basic test is to replace the current monitor profile with a known good one, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB (depending on type of display). That's just to test if they now display the same. Remember to relaunch the application after changing the monitor profile in the operating system. The profile is loaded at application startup and used until next launch.