CS4 crash with ntdll.dll

Report · Oct 06, 2009

Newly installed and fully patched CS4. Nikon Camera Control Pro 2 installed with camera connected via USB. NikonCapture 4.0 installed. Epson V700 Pro scanner installed locally via USB. Sony DPP-EX7 printer installed locally via USB. Latest display drivers for ATI dual monitor videocard installed.

Windows XP SP2, fully patched.

More often than not, when a user attempts to print an image, CS4 crashes with no error displayed to the user. The following error sometimes appears in the event log:

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1000
Date: 10/5/2009
Time: 4:47:06 PM
User: N/A
Computer: <computername>
Description:
Faulting application photoshop.exe, version 11.0.1.0, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.3520, fault address 0x00011948.

Another error:

Event Type: Information
Event Source: DrWatson
Event Category: None
Event ID: 4097
Date: 10/5/2009
Time: 4:47:39 PM
User: N/A
Computer: <computername>

Description:
The application, C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS4\Photoshop.exe, generated an application error The error occurred on 10/05/2009 @ 16:47:39.380 The exception generated was 80000007 at address 00000000 (ntdll!KiFastSystemCallRet)

Suspect the sony printer, however, the latest drivers are installed. A generic postscript printer has been installed as the default for the user which helps, but does not prevent the error from returning. This has been an ongoing problem with a couple machines at my organization. Multiple reloads of the operating system, CS4, printer drivers, manipulating user permissions, and the problem persists. I'm open to any ideas.

Report · Oct 14, 2009

Post 15 also mention taking version cue off the computers. I never installed version cue due to reading about issues with it. Something else to try unless you already have.

Report · Oct 16, 2009

This has been an ongoing issue for over 10 months.

Adobe Case #0180593007 was opened regarding this same issue on 12/8/08. It was closed on 12/17/08. The reply I received was a definition of ntdll.dll. I was referred to Microsoft to troubleshoot the file. There are no other application crashes or problems on this workstation other than the one detailed in this thread.

I was also referred to the following adobe articles:

Troubleshoot installation problems with Adobe Create Suite 4 or Point Products on Windows XP

http://www.adobe.com/go/kb404083

Troubleshoot system errors or freezes in Photoshop CS4 (Windows XP)

http://www.adobe.com/go/kb404896

Each step in the above kb articles have been followed on one of the two affected workstations.

Report · Oct 19, 2009

Been reading this with some interest.

I assume you have taken the printers from the systems that crash over to the ones that don't, as well as bring over the printers from the machines that don't crash to the ones that do.

Two things pop out to me to do. One is to be talking with Dell and see if there is some variation in their installed programs and OS configurations using the s/n to trace.

Second, save a file that doesn't print as a tiff, install another editor like even Gimp and see if it now prints.

It certainly appears to be a machine problem, and in my experience, many times intractable problems like this yield to hardware replacement. EVERYTHING gets step by step replaced. The tough part though is that even if it does print ,say with Gimp, it still doesn't mean Photoshop alone is the problem. In fact, CS4 does run on the other machines, so you need to bear down on the two that don't.

Depending on the size and resources for hardware in your organization, I would have long ago pulled the offending machines installed replacements until I get all stations running. With 10 months under your belt, your wasted manpower cost has to be greater than replacing a couple of machines.

Good luck!

Report · Oct 19, 2009

Hudechrome,

Thank you for the reply.

Taking a printer from a system that crashes over to one that doesn't results in normal, solid printing behavior through CS4.

Regarding our Dell systems, upon arrival, we format the hard drive, install a volume license version of the OS, and then install system

drivers from either the resource disc or download them using the service tag as a reference. We do flip some BIOS settings, but there is a general standard for that.

Our security officer won't allow the installation of GIMP. It is a good program, but unfortunately freeware/shareware is banned from our

network by policy. Attempts to print the same images as TIFs through MS Ofc Picture Manager or MS Picture and Fax viewer results in normal prints without error. Without going into great detail, the images must be TIFs and remain as such due to the nature of the work done with the photos. They are large file sizes for sure, but it is non-negotiable with the users and the purpose of the photo work performed on these systems. Photo file size and/or format have not been an issue on the other working systems. The dept housing the systems has an affinity with these printers due to their print quality under magnification.

One of the problem systems was completely replaced with a new one and the problem persisted. Though the problem has existed for

10 months, I haven't worked on it the entire time. When the issue began, it was one system amongst three in close proximity to one another. I spent several months off and on troubleshooting it with no progress. The livable workaround was to send the print jobs to the same make/model of printer attached to another nearby system through a printer share. After the system was replaced and the same symptoms persisted, the workaround was re-instated once a second total rebuild proved fruitless. Now, there is another affected system in a different location (regional office). It is the only system of its kind in that location, so the current workaround is unfeasible for them and productivity is suffering.

I'm for replacing individual parts, but everything else on the machine(s) work fine. There are no symptoms of a deeper issue going on. I'd test the RAM, hard drive, run Dell diagnostics, etc. Both machines are well under the 3 year warranty and we have Dell warranty parts direct certification.

I'm going to try something tomorrow as another workaround to move the printing task away from the machine. A usb print server (<$40) will allow us to add the printer to our network print server. We've had good experiences in the past where there were no other alternatives. If this works, I can get the remote office working and spend a little more time with the system setup that is local to me. Thanks again.

Report · Oct 19, 2009

Gimp was a long shot and yes, security measures do mitigate against some of those kinds of software.

I still would want to try another editor. Corel has one, Paintshop Pro.But since you have tried it in at least one other way using the same file in both, it sure seems that CS4 is being compromised somehow. It simply incredible that you can replace the system and it still persists. It suggests that the systems that work may be the anomaly!

Flipping the BIOS? Is this an upgrade on some and not the others? When I was writing my post, I considered BIOS, but frankly, my experiences with them had no printer attached to the computer.

At this point, I would have to search for some commonality between the systems that work and then the ones that don't. Check for what is different between the two sets.

I wish my share network would allow me to run my Epson 3800 from either computer. My Canon runs with either computer of the share but the Epson doesn't. That may be your best answer. But then, how does it figure that a computer that crashes an attached printer does not do so over the network?

I sure would love to know how this works out.

Report · Oct 20, 2009

@ Hudechrome

I was completely incredulous when the problem persisted after the system was replaced.

The BIOS flipping comment meant that we/I change some BIOS settings on the machine as a matter of general practice. In an earlier post, I made reference to power management settings for USB. There are other benign settings changes that we make. I cannot find a difference regarding the printer setup. Most all security settings are controlled by Group Policy. The 3 that work had a previous version of Photoshop installed prior to CS4. I know that doesn't help much. I find it interesting.

The USB print server workaround did not pan out for me because the printer is not compatible with the USB print server we have. The printer has a memory stick slot and therefore seen as a multi-function printer. The driver installs, I can change settings, it shows online, but when I attempt a test print it says the printer is incompatible with the USB print server. Though one can find USB multi-function print servers, I don't see any that support Sony printers. It would be a crapshoot to buy one only for that purpose. I looked at the compatibility list for one of their print servers and don't see the model of Epson you mention at this site:

http://www.trendnet.com/products/proddetail.asp?prod=115_TE100-MP2U&cat=46

We do have 7 USB printers in our home office that we are able to use through trendnet USB print servers. The printers are Zebra (barcode) and Dymo (label) printers. This is the first to be incompatible, but it is the first we've attempted containing a mass storage device. Good luck in your search.

I have no answer why it doesn't crash the system issuing the print job over the network versus locally. Posting here was one of last resorts as I tried everything I could think of first. Doing an online search of ntdll.dll in conjunction with Adobe garners several thousand hits with articles concerning several Adobe products. Whether Adobe is directly causing it or not, I couldn't say for certain. There seems to be a lot of instances of ntdll.dll crashing in relation to Adobe programs.

As a further test to I was able to share the printer from yet another system and print much more reliably than if it were installed locally. This may be my only choice at this point at the remote location. I'm still working towards a permanent solution though.

Report · Oct 20, 2009

I'm not surprised to find the Sony also not on the list of recommended printers. I thought a router with a print connection would be the answer but a caveat on the website said check your printer for compliance with their list. No pro Epsons were listed. I haven't talked to the Epson people yet as it's a minor annoyance. I can grab the document on my machine off the network and print it fine.

Keep in touch!

Report · Oct 20, 2009

A thought occured to me that perhaps setting up a corrupt machine with Win7 might be a solution. Win 7 is supposed to have better backwards compatibility than Vista, so CS3 should run fine. I may give it a try myself before migrating to a new machine.

Just for laughs!

Report · Oct 21, 2009

Win7 is not an option at this point. We have too many other network applications to validate first. If we were to go to that, we'd might as well go 64-bit since CS4 supports it and load it up with more RAM than the current 4GB.

As much as I fear it is a waste of time, one of the machines will be fully reloaded (again). This time, the only things besides the OS and system drivers will be CS4 (including pre-requisites) and the printer. An unpatched instance of XP SP3 will be used. The machine will not be joined to the domain. It will be as vanilla as possible. The CS4 behavior during printing will be tested at that point and no other software or extra peripherals will be present. If printing remains spot-on through any application other than CS4, I'll re-open or open a new case with Adobe for a valid, demonstrable reason why it will not work on two systems while working on three.

Report · Oct 21, 2009

Keep us informed, and thank you.

Report · Oct 21, 2009

If printing remains spot-on through any application other than CS4, I'll re-open or open a new case with Adobe for a valid, demonstrable reason why it will not work on two systems while working on three.

And the first question Adobe support should ask: "have you tried a different printer/driver on that system?"

You still haven't done the correct troubleshooting steps to isolate the problem.

But this still looks like a Sony driver bug.

Report · Oct 21, 2009

I am mystified by your post, Chris.

From post 20:

"I installed the one and only print driver update for the Sony and the symptoms are the same.

For my own enlightenment, because this is exactly what I or anyone else In my group would have done, what is inadequate with that step? Maybe it is some sort of driver issue but with that statement, if true, the only recourse would be either to abandon Photoshop or the printer.

I'm not particularly defending the OP, but rather, wanting to understand any missing elements. Somehow the exchange "Update the driver" "I did" "Update the driver" seems disingenuous. Is there something Adobe does when updating a driver that is missing when one of us updates the driver and it still doesn't work?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Thank you.

Is this, by any chance, a Zen exercise?

Message was edited by: Hudechrome

Report · Oct 22, 2009

""I installed the one and only print driver update for the Sony"

That's not a different printer.

That's not a different driver.

That's just an update to the same printer driver, that most likely has the same bug (and since the problem still occurs, it appears to have the same bug).

Again, the specific model of printer/driver needs to be taken out of the equation.

Report · Oct 23, 2009

Swapping a different printer of the same model proves there is nothing wrong with the printer itself. Something could have been wrong with the printer that was causing erratic print behavior. Anyone chasing an illusive printer problem would be remiss in refusing to try that as a troubleshooting step. There are two drivers, the original and one update. Both have been tried.

Can I print on ANY other printer, yes, but I can print to the Sony as well. It doesn't do so reliably. It might print fine during one CS4 session, but if you close the program and open it again, it may never print again until you restart the computer. During this same period I can print through any other program just fine. Does the program crash when any other printer is set as the default? Yes. The program can crash while the print dialog box is open or in the process of opening. It crashes in many instances before the print job is issued to the printer.

I've lost count how many times I've made this point in the thread. I do it again only keep anyone reading on track. The printer works absolutely fine through any application on the computer with the exception of CS4. The same model of printer works fine on 3 out of 5 machines.

Regarding reporting this to Sony's tech support. Again, I've answered this. It's so asinine, so rhetorical, anyone that has ever provided tech support or communicated with tech support can script the conversation themselves:

Caller (to Sony tech support): "Often, when I try to print through Adobe's CS4, the program crashes. Sometimes the program crashes before I even send the print job to the printer and it crashes at the CS4 print dialog box."

Sony Tech support: "Does the printer perform correctly through other applications?"

Caller: "Yes it does. It prints fine through any other application. It prints the same image(s) through other applications on the same machine."

--- other troubleshooting steps are discussed that have already been covered in this thread ---

Sony Tech support: "So the printer works fine, but CS4 is crashing on you? Do you have any other machines with this same setup that works?"

Caller: "Well, yes...there are several."

Sony Tech support: "Well, it sounds like the common denominator is Adobe. You need to speak with Adobe because the printer works fine anywhere else. Have you contacted Adobe?"

I've been out of the office. The machine will be reloaded today.

Report · Oct 29, 2009

I am fresh out of ideas. You covered everything that I know of. Unless someone else with vast more experience then me chimes in all you can do is call Adobe customer service. I wish you luck with that.

edds

Report · Oct 30, 2009

I have sat and read every post in this thread and one thing that occurred to me is that on two occasions you specifically stated that the working workstation had other Adobe software previously installed. You have not, as far as I can recall, yet said that you have tried to replicate that condition on a workstation with the print problem.

If I were doing the trouble shooting I would have done a clean installation and tried to replicate the order of software installation on the working workstation.

Did you ever get round to cloneing the hard drive from a working workstation and trying it on a non working one? You could only really do this if the hardware is substantially similar.

I have a hunch that this problem is going to be a bit more subtle than just one component causing the problem, which is why I suggested the test in paragraph one and two..

Back a few releases ago I got much the same reaction as you have when I said something must be wrong when a new laptop would not run Photoshop and I was told it had to be my laptop. The previous version worked so to my mind it had to be some interaction between the new version of Photoshop and the operating system. I was insulted by some forum members and dismissed as an idiot. It turned out that an oem version of XP was put out set to Welsh and the new version of Photoshop had a bug that meant it could not support it. I changed my operating system to UK English and all worked fine.

I was not the one to discover the cause unfortunately but I did get an apology from Scott Byer of Adobe, so you see things are not always what they first seem.

Report · Nov 01, 2009

Ken47,

Thank you for taking the time to read the entire thread.

Regarding the installation of a previous version of CS and then installing CS4, I did try that before reloading the OS on one of the problem systems. I uninstalled CS4, installed CS3, then installed CS4. I had some high hopes for this. Unfortunately, it didn't appear to work. If there is something to this, I missed it somehow. If there is a step that should be included, I'd be happy to try that again.

In regards to cloning a working system, they do differ enough that I'm afraid I'll introduce another level of complexity to the problem. When I did a complete vanilla install of one of the systems, had that actually worked, I would have syspreped and grabbed an image of it to place on the other system as they are very similar. I still have one of the systems in a base or 'vanilla' state in hopes of eventually sorting this out. I'll definitely clone that system after deactivating CS4 on the machine, should a solution be found.

The OS in every instance for me is volume license - EN. When I reinstalled one of the problem systems, I obtained a new ISO of XP w/SP3 (VL version). I also downloaded CS4 from Adobe rather than use the same disc that I had been using.

Thank you for the words of encouragement. We'll see how things turn out.

Report · Feb 07, 2010

After doing some thorough research on the web about an issue I am having with Photoshop CS4, I came across this thread and was subsequentally enthralled with what I was reading.

I too, suffer from this ntdll.dll crash when attempting to print. I am printing to a few different Ricoh printers over a network. Like the author of this thread, I have tried many many different avenues of troubleshooting in trying to get this issue fixed. Formats, fresh installs of software, new drivers, system tweaks. You name it, I have tried it. Various machines work fine, some fail. All machines are identical in terms of hardware & software. All cloned from a base PC. In the end I have come to the same conclusion time and time again, Photoshop has a flaw somewhere in its printing system.

To the author, here is something more to try (if you can be bothered), I have resorted to telling my marketing team to click the 'Page Setup' button in the print dialog, then simply clicking OK. This sorts them out for the rest of their session in Photoshop. Its basically become routine for them when they start their day. Why this works for us I don't know. Thought it might be helpful to you.

Cheers,

Mitch.

CS4 crash with ntdll.dll

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