Endless Windows'/Photoshop issues

[lyuboslavl50609992]

Hi everybody !!

I have bought new PC with Windows 10 couple of days ago,i have installed Adobe Photoshop,i also have calibrated my display with Xrite i1,and i have used V2 profiles because V4 was ''problematic'' with Windows 10 (contrasty and dark images).

Now the problems is that if i import a Raw image into Photoshop and then export to Jpeg,my image in Windows viewer and Facebook and in all places looks dark and contrasty,the strange thing is that my old photos from my old Windows 7 are looking perfectly fine in Windows 10 viewer Facebook etc.

I tried re-install Photoshop-no luck,tried updated Windows 10-no luck,tried re-calibrated couple more times-no luck.No matter what i do,my exported photo will look contrasty and dark after the export,if i bring if back into Photoshop looks fine ?!  

I edit always my photos in ProPhoto RGB and then i convert them to sRGB with Embed Profile.

[davescm]

Photoshop is colour managed and displays images using the monitor profile.

Windows Photo viewer is not and ignores both the document and the monitor profile.

Facebook is browser dependant. If your browser is set to use colour management and assume an sRGB profile on images without an embedded profile then it should look OK.

Dave

[lyuboslavl50609992]

Thanks  for the reply Davescm !Seems that my Photoshop Embedded profile just do not work...very strange,when i export i use Export As option,then when i check Embed profile the photo looks great in the preview window,but when i open it after that looks again contrasty and dark...i've also read that Xrite i1 V4 version profiles are not supported in Windows 10,so i have installed V2 but still no change at all.

[davescm]

Why assume that applications without colour management are correct and Photoshop is wrong?

You don't say whether your PC has a-wide gamut monitor. If it does, then you must use color managed applications for viewing. Applications without it will look incorrect.

Dave

[lyuboslavl50609992]

It is not wide gamut my monitor,my monitor with my old PC was everything perfect always,since i changed my PC with Windows 10 and all started to happens...also i have tried remove the Calibration profile from Xrite i1 and place default Calibration profile and everything works fine,then tried 3-4-5 times to re-calibrated and those are the results mentioned above.

[D Fosse]

You still don't understand. It's not the file. It's whether the application displays the file correctly.

Windows "Photos" does not support icc profiles at all, and will never display correctly, ever, under any circumstances. Disregard and ignore it. Web browsers are hit or miss depending.

Assuming your x-rite monitor profile isn't corrupt or defective, and the document profile is embedded in the file, Photoshop will always display correctly. That's how the file actually is.

Make a side-by-side screenshot of the same file open in Photoshop (color managed) and Windows "Photos" (not color managed). There will (and should!) be a difference, but this is just to check if the monitor profile seems healthy. If it does, you can always trust Photoshop.

One more thing: ProPhoto is for expert users. In the wrong hands it can be very damaging. I would strongly advise you to not use it until you get more experience.

[lyuboslavl50609992]

On the left side is Windows viewer and on the right Photoshop,clearly the Windows viewer image is crushed with contrast...

[D Fosse]

Yes, this is actually an excellent demonstration of the point we've been trying to make.

What you see in Windows "Photos" is entirely uncorrected for any defects in your display. So what this shows is that your monitor has a nonlinear response in the shadows, with a distinctive dip in the curve that tends to block up shadows. This is in fact very normal and very common for all LCD panels, unless it's been corrected at the factory.

The monitor profile records this, and Photoshop corrects for it, using that profile when sending out data to the display. This way the image is correctly represented on screen.

There is absolutely nothing wrong here, just a demonstration of why Photoshop should be trusted over a consumer-oriented and simple image viewer.

[lyuboslavl50609992]

Thanks for the clarification !So what should i do to make it work...i am very confused,i have downloaded and tried install my display original drivers,without any luck,tried manually still no luck...my PC recognize the display as Generic Pnp,now that i have tried unistall drivers,in Color Manegement there is no monitor...what a mess !I think i should re-install my Windows 10,despite its used only 5 days since i bought my new PC... 😞

[davescm]

"So what should i do to make it work"

1. Stop using non colour managed applications if you expect a match. So leave Windows Photos closed.

2. Use your Xrite to cailbrate and Profile your monitor. Make a v2 profile which will be compatible with more applications. Make sure this is set as default in Windows 10 (the XRite software should do that automatically).

3. Trust Photoshop

If you export for the web:

1. Use Save for Web and check both Convert to sRGB and Embed Color Profile.

2. Use a web browser that supports colour management. I use Firefox but when setting up Firefox

- Type about:config into the Firefox search bar

- Use the filter to search for color_management

- Set gfx.color_management.mode to 1

- Set gfx.color_management.enablev4 to true

That is it. Use colour managed applications and colour will display correctly.

Dave

[Per Berntsen]

Here are some alternatives to Windows Photos:

1. FastStone image viewer. Free for personal use. Color management must be enabled under Settings > CMS, and both boxes must be checked,
2. ACDSee. Not free. Color managed out of the box.
3. Irfanview. Free for none commercial use. Color management must be enabled under Options > Properties/Settings.
4. Adobe Bridge. Included in your Creative Cloud subscription.

[lyuboslavl50609992]

Thank you,i've tried Irfanview couple of days ago but without succes..i must try the other 2 options !

[lyuboslavl50609992]

Thank you !I will try Firefox today...

But i am thinking...if i see colors in the best way in Photoshop,then all other people browsing from their smartphons,computers etc. which are not calibrated,they will not see in the right way the colors and contrast etc. then whats the point of calibrating your display...i guess good starting point at editing your photos ??

[davescm]

You are right in that anyone not using a calibrated and profiled screen, with colour managed software, will not view your images as you see them.Those that care will probably use such systems. Those that do not use them, probably don't care.

However it is a bit like the TV companies sending out their programmes. At least they know the colour is correct to a standard viewed on industry standard and calibrated monitors. So when viewed on Aunty Flo's TV with it's bias toward green, it will show the same sort of error as all the other programmes she watches and will not stick out as unusual (unless the colorist wanted it that way).

Dave

[lyuboslavl50609992]

I ended up deleting all Xrite i1 profiles,i now use sRGB default profile which comes in Windows 10,i calibrated it from my Nvida control panel trying matching the calibration before,and it worked very very good...there will be difference,but not visible by eyes,i am very happy with the resutlts !

Now Windows 10 viewer works exactly the same as Photoshop and Facebook,Instragam etc.

This was my setup before deciding to calibrate my monitor,but for me personaly i do not see logical explanation why i should use calibrated setup by Xrite i1 instead calibrating with Nvidia control panel and get almost 99% same results without any troubles...Thanks again for the feedbacks and for the help !

[D Fosse]

So you go for two wrong instead of one right. I suppose that's your own choice.

You do realize that this Photoshop match to Windows "Photos" has absolutely no relevance outside your own system? Others won't see what you see, so it's all a waste.

You're throwing away an opportunity to work to an established reference, replacing it with randomness and unpredictability.

[lyuboslavl50609992]

I think majority of the people who browse photography in facebook and instragram will not have any calibration to benefit from my editing after the calibration,also i have calibrated via Nvidia Control panel the sRGB profile to be almost identical to the Xrite i1 profile,so i don't see any disatvandages,acctualy the sRGB default profile works like a charm,no difference no more contrasty images etc...my photos now look perfectly fine from Iphon,Nokia,other computer's etc...yes they have little differnce from device to device but not that big as from calibrated via Xrite i1 profile.I also have printed photograph from Canon Calender 2021,and my photo is looking perfectly fine as in my PC and it was made last year without any calibration device,only with sRGB default profile and manual calibration...i have used online calibration method http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ . 

[lyuboslavl50609992]

You say ''Others won't see what you see, so it's all a waste''...yes but again others won't see what i see if my display is calibrated and on the others is not,its the same thing.I have seen many times from couple of different devices my photos looks perfectly fine, whitout any excesive contrast, over saturation or something strange to look like a crap, so i do not see any problem going in this direction.

[davescm]

What you do is entirely up to you, but don't fool yourself into believing you are adjusting to look right across a range of systems.

If you adjust to lift those blocky blacks on your uncalibrated monitor  they will be too light on a calibrated and profiled system and could range from OK to far too light on uncalibrated systems. Then there is colour. Carefully adjusting on an uncalibrated and unprofiled monitor means you are building in corrections for both your image and your monitor into your picture. Or in other words you are adjusting all your images to correct the deficiencies in your particular monitor which is exactly what the colour management system is designed to avoid.

Good luck.

Dave 

[lyuboslavl50609992]

I agree with you,but most of the majority of the devices are not calibrated and the chance that my photos will look good is greater than with calibrated device...In this way you have to guess,what i mean...you start adjusting your photos,you start lifting the shadows-blacks-cotrast etc.and when you upload it to facebook or instagram or another social media your blacks will always look ugly and very black,thats something i do not like,yes if somebody has also calibrated monitor will be ok viewing my calibrated edited photo,but most the viewers not.

[davescm]

"the chance that my photos will look good is greater than with calibrated device."

That is wrong. You are assuming that all uncalibrated devices respond the same as yours. They do not. Some a dark some are light. Some oversaturate, some undersaturate. Some are biased toward a certain colour, others to a different colour. Most do not track the intended gamma of a colour space and their variation is different across devices. The primary colours i.e Red ,Green and Blue vary across devices.

So actually adjusting to a specific uncalibrated device, decreases the chances of it looking reasonable across a wide range of uncalibrated devices. There really is a reason that photographers, printmakers, TV companies, film companies adjust their images on calibrated (and for still images profiled) monitors.

Dave

[D Fosse]

That's a crucial point Dave makes there. Say it out loud three times:

"So actually adjusting to a specific uncalibrated device, decreases the chances of it looking reasonable across a wide range of uncalibrated devices."

You're actually making it worse.

[D Fosse]

You still don't understand.

The x-rite does not change the file in any way. It's exactly the same, the numbers are exactly the same.

What it does is to let Photoshop display those numbers correctly, using the monitor profile to do so. That way you have a reference to what the file really looks like.

Windows Photos doesn't care. It doesn't know that there is a monitor profile, and it has no idea that you even have the x-rite software installed on your system. It will behave exactly the same way whether you profile your display or not. It's completely out of the loop.

What other people do is really their problem, not yours. If they care at all, they too will have a profiled monitor, and then they will see the same as you. They can if they want to.

You're really putting your head in the sand. I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I am going to tell you what you're missing out on.

[davescm]

"The x-rite does not change the file in any way. It's exactly the same, the numbers are exactly the same."

Spot on. But adjusting the image by eye on an uncalibrated and unprofiled device leads to the corrections compensating for the deficiencies of that specific monitor. Those corrections are built into the image. (I know that you know that Dag but wanted to make sure that the OP is aware).

Dave

[lyuboslavl50609992]

Finaly i have solved my problems...you have right its better with calibration !

What happened is that my Photoshop and Camera Raw are set in Adobe RGB color profile booth...now i noticed last night that Adobe RGB shows my histogram with around 1 stop brighter,and sRGB with aroud 1 stop darker,the Adobe RGB its not showing me the reality in other words maybe it has to do that my montor is sRGB not Adobe RGB i not sure about that...and thats why when i edit in Adobe RGB then converting in sRGB my photos aer looking alot darker...now i set sRGB in Camera RAW and sRGB in Photoshop then Export in sRGB with Embeded as always but now my photo looked from my Ipone and Nokia smartphones looks great with very very neglegible difference !