Gradient Map, foreground to transparent Preset

[Tiago Mota Garcia]

Hi there,

When using gradient map (last version photoshop, 23.5.1), with the preset foregroud to transparent, transparency never works with gradient map. I think this is a pretty basic question but with gradient, or gradient tool, transparency works fine. With gradient map if i choose black in darks 100% opacity and black in whites 0% opacity, i get a full black image, same thing as foreground to backgound when both are black. Its easy to get what i want (with blending options, etc) but always had this question, is there any check box "Transparency" in gradient map that i am missing? If transparency dont work with gradient map why this preset exist? 

Thanks,

Tiago Mota Garcia

[c.pfaffenbichler]

Gradient Map is an Adjustment (Layer). 

Quote on Gradient Map from the Help: 

»The Gradient Map adjustment maps the equivalent grayscale range of an image to the colors of a specified gradient fill. If you specify a two-color gradient fill, for example, shadows in the image are mapped to one of the endpoint colors of the gradient fill, highlights are mapped to the other endpoint color, and midtones are mapped to the gradations in between.«

Adjustments are not intended to affect transparency directly (so far at least and, as you mentioned, work-arounds exist).

I suspect creating a separate Gradient-dialog just for the Gradient Map Adjustment (Layers) might seem like a waste of resources. 

[Earth Oliver]

I think it would actually be kind of neat if you could apply transparency to a grad map, allowing the original pixels to come through and be blended with the color and opacity? I don't see why this shouldn't be an option, rather than needing to go through all the steps needed to simulate. 

In fact, this almost looks like a bug to me... if transparency wasn't intended to work with grad maps, why are the opacity nodes even an option when adjusting the grad?

[c.pfaffenbichler]

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if transparency wasn't intended to work with grad maps, why are the opacity nodes even an option when adjusting the grad?

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Because adapting the Gradient dialog for this one task might be more effort than »what it’s worth« at current? 

Though I admit that the presence of transparency stops encourages the expectation for them to have meaning/an effect. 

I suspect one speed-bump would be Background Layers. 

They cannot be transparent so even if Gradient Map Layers would imbue transparency to other Layers Background Layers might cause confusion. 

[Tiago Mota Garcia]

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if transparency wasn't intended to work with grad maps, why are the opacity nodes even an option when adjusting the grad?

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Because adapting the Gradient dialog for this one task might be more effort than »what it’s worth« at current? 

I understand that, but...how many dialogs were created and adapted to a specific task? Keep a dialog not 100% correct because it dont worth the effort... in Adobe Photoshop?

[c.pfaffenbichler]

You can post a Feature Request (»Idea« instead of »Discussion«) on Gradient Maps affecting transparency, too, and if enough posters support the idea it might be considered for implementation. 

[Earth Oliver]

In its current state with editable opacity that does nothing, i would consider it a bug.

[c.pfaffenbichler]

Adjustments are not intended (so far at least) to affect transparency immediately, so I disagreee on the bug-classification. 

But a »problematic or confusing interface« – that seems hard to dispute. 

[Tiago Mota Garcia]

Thanks for the answers, I think i didnt explain myself corretctly, i dont have transparency on underlying layers. I thought if we choose in gradient map 0% opacity in highlights for example, it will not modify any pixels in highlights of underlying layers. Thought it should work like moving leftt the highlights selector of underlying layers in "blending if” of any other Adjustment layer! Can’t see the reason for opacity sliders in gradient map. So, a bug or confusing interface, boths could make sense perhaps!

[Earth Oliver]

Gradient Maps don't work with transparency, but after thinking about this... maybe they should?

[TomAlphabet]

I believe this is 100% a bug and infuriatingly has been this way for as long as I can remember. Every now and then I try to use the feature again - like this morning - and I am reminded it just doesn't work. Finally took a moment to actually bug it - feel free to chime in with more info...

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-bugs/gradient-map-adjustment-layer-quot-opacity-q... 

Gradient Map Adjustment Layer Editor has 2 kinds of sliders - Color and Opacity. The Color sliders work fine - place one at the luminance value desired and select a color to be mapped to that value. AFAIK Opacity SHOULD work in a similar way - place one at the luminance value desired and select an opacity level, which should determine the "intensity" of the gradient remapping at that particular value. So my understanding is if you want blacks to be fully affected by the specified gradient map and whites to be completely unaffected, you would add a 100% opacity slider at the bottom end, and a 0% slider at the top end, then the gradient remapping opacity values would interpolate in betweeen. BUT assigning 0% to an opacity slider has NO effect, so there is no way to achieve this result. FRUSTRATING.

[Earth Oliver · Accepted solution]

I've asked the devs about this and the behavior is not bugged, What is wrong is that the opacity sliders are visible when using grad maps. I guess they were too busy to code a different set of sliders, so they just left the opacity stops in...

[rhondastudio]

Are you suggesting the opacity sliders shouldn't be there in the first place? I don't believe this as they are fairly deeply integrated into the Gradient Map Editor UI. Given the sliders behave as I would expect in the little preview window within the Editor (reducing opacity reveals the checkerboard texture underneath), it seems like there was an intent for them to actually work as described above, but for some reason they just don't have the same effect on the actual canvas. As noted above, I've now bugged the issue so it hopefully gets some attention.

[TomAlphabet]

Apologies - responded from a different machine. The @rhondastudio reply above is actually from @TomAlphabet

[Earth Oliver]

Yes, i'm saying that they shouldn't be there to begin with. Adobe simply repurposed the sliders from the normal gradient tool instead of designing a new tool for gradient mapping.

[TomAlphabet]

OK but even if that's the case, why COULDN'T the gradient map tool be made to work that way? Seems like there is interest in and demand for the feature, especially after dangling the carrot there for so long. Doesn't seem to be a reason why 2 gradient tools within the one app should behave differently?

[Earth Oliver]

Yes, if you read through this thread you'll see that i've suggested that.

[Carlos258128589jkr]

Alright, but if it is not supposed to be that way how about not displaying the opacity for those in that case?

I have received a file with gradient maps and it looks like this, which is not ideal at all.

 And it could totally be opaque because on the other panels displaying 'gradient maps' it definitely looks opaque:

 Hopefully there's a fix for this?

Thanks in advance.

[c.pfaffenbichler]

How and when did the people create that Gradient Preset? 

Because I have so far failed in creating one without any Opacity Stop. 

Sorry, my mistake, that is perfectly normal. 

Could you provide a file with just that Gradient Map Adjustment Layer on a blank Layer? 

[Tiago Mota Garcia]

When i use gradient map, always tried to find some "allow transparency" checkbox, but never find. With all the answers i can see now its not my mistake but a bug or a incorrect dialog with more settings then this tool allow. Maybe in a future update abobe correct this!