[Locked] Please, Can't We Just Continue To Purchase Photoshop, not CC, Adobe?

[roboticaman]

Please, could we just continue to purchase our programs, Adobe?

I cannot go along with the Creative Cloud only option.  Although Adobe is offering great "discounts" on the Creative Cloud versions, they will absolutely raise the price each year.  (That is clearly stated in their "Terms.")  Adobe's "special discount introductory offer" goes to the "current price" after the first year.  The $9.99 / month special offer becomes $19.99 or $29.99 after a year (or much more - it is completely at Adobe's discretion how high it goes).

I do not want or need the Cloud, Storage, or Collaborative "features" that are the hallmark of the CC releases.  I am pleased to wait for a year for new features.  (Updates for bug fixes should not be delayed, however.)

This is just like the cable and satellite TV companies, they surreptitiously raise the monthly price, until you are paying INSANE amounts.

Like Woody Allen said (my paraphrasing, sorry):

"If you put a frog into a pot of cold water and slowly bring it to a boil, he will just sit there and boil - because the discomfort change is so slow, he'll hardly notice it, until he is thoroughly cooked!"

Adobe wants us to be that frog.

And once we have all signed up and are comfortable in our plan, Adobe wants us to forget that we are (almost invisibly to us) paying each month - while the price goes up and up each year.

I just read about a student who signed up last year for the "introductory" CC pricing for students, and now his price is going up to $29.99 per month, after just one year.  And where does it stop? Do you think it stops at $29.99?

(Quick math solution: $29.99 X 12 = $359.88 PER YEAR, EVERY YEAR!  And this is not capped, so the upward monthly price is unlimited!)

Although I love the products, I don't want to pay another gouging cable or satellite company!

Thanks for listening.

And Adobe, could you please, please continue to offer our "old-style" purchasing of new versions of Photoshop?

I will not join the 'Cloud.'

Please join Me.

[station_two]

Noel Carboni wrote:

Uh oh, he's turning red…

Cazzo, Noel!  Where do you get that from?  I would have thought such puerile taunting would be beneath you.

[Noel Carboni]

station_two wrote:

Cazzo, Noel!  Where do you get that from?  I would have thought such puerile taunting would be beneath you.

Um, the big red font.  I didn't mean to imply anything more; sorry.

-Noel

[station_two]

Oh, sorry about overlooking the connection between your remark and my maroon font.  (That's what Microsoft calls it "maroon" in MS Word for Mac.  I've adpted it.)

[Noel Carboni]

station_two wrote:

Oh, sorry about overlooking the connection between your remark and my maroon font.  (That's what Microsoft calls it "maroon" in MS Word for Mac.  I've adpted it.)

A rose (color) by any other name... 

-Noel

[station_two]

Maybe we can both live with this one:

[Noel Carboni]

I'm good with that.

-Noel

[station_two]

Noel Carboni wrote:

…And there are those who will want to keep an older computer and keep using older software.  They WILL be left behind by the state of the art…

No, we'll move to to the competition, as I have already done with Photoline—as a first, baby step.

[station_two]

Re your comments on InDesign and Illustrator:

Twenty-one, I don't share files of any kind with anybody.  When I share the fruits of my work, I give out PDFs or —more often— prints and printed documents..

[station_two]

twenty_one wrote:

…So where exactly are we being ripped off?

At the very end, twenty-one!  Big time!

At the end of the subscription you own zilch and the bloody software ceases to work.  From where I sit, that's an unconscionable rip-off.    Adobe offers us no exit strategy, such as freezing your Photoshop at the current stage of development when you exit the subscription and turning it into a perpetually licensed version for an additional, one-time fair fee.  Notice I say, an additional, fair fee, not a "nominal" one.

Look, my customer relationship with Adobe started almost 30 years ago due to my involvement in Typography and DTP.  Over time I bought a gazillion Adobe fonts, InDesign, Illustrator, Acrobat Professional and finally Photoshop standard (the latter one when I dismantled my darkroom in 2003).  The truth is that I'm perfectly fine with my older versions of  Adobe fonts (many of the PS_Type1, InDesign (2), Illustrator (CS2) and Acrobat Professional 8.  I have no need to upgrade any of those applications.  A subscription would be an idiotic choice for me.

I would be absolutely fine with Photoshop CS1 if it weren't by the built-in obsolescence enjoyed by Adobe by virtue of new camera models and the still-work-in-progress nature of ACR at this time.  Only the improvements made to ACR motivated me to upgrade all the way through CS6.

So, again, I would be getting ripped off at the end of the bloody subscription!  That's where! 

[Noel Carboni]

station_two wrote:

I would be absolutely fine with Photoshop CS1 if it weren't by the built-in obsolescence enjoyed by Adobe by virtue of new camera models and the still-work-in-progress nature of ACR at this time.  Only the improvements made to ACR motivated me to upgrade all the way through CS6.

I did want to respond to this point, in particular.

Try to think outside your box for a moment and imagine that software engineers might actually want to be paid for their work. 

They added value, and  you traded something of value for it.  Where is the problem?

Did you pay someone to build your car?  Will it last forever or will you have to buy another one?

-Noel

[station_two]

You're grasping at straws now, Noel.

Of course the designers and makers of my car have been paid for their work.  I didn't steal it.

I didn't steal CS6 either.

If I wanted a new car, I'd buy a new one, not lease one.  But my vehicle is now ten years old, it has barely 39,000 miles on it, and it works like a dream.  When the times come, I'll buy another one, and it could well be a used one, not necessarily a new one.

Noel, all analogies are bad.  Quit wasting time with this futile exercise.

[roboticaman]

To several answerers to my original post:

I'm not crying about potential increases.  I'm demanding that Adobe end this affront to the long-time users that made Adobe (and Photoshop) an international success and a standard.  Yes, we have benefitted from an excellent, forward-pushing application.  But we did not get it for free, and every upgrade was at a cost.  Now, to stay "current," we have to accept a new "business model," that will make Adobe richer per user than previously imagined.  I purchased the Photoshop that was purchased outright, for me to use until my computer OS could no longer do so.  To change this method of using a program that we have used for so long is unacceptable.  I don't want to change - I should not have to change.  It is Adobe that established this method of selling the program to me, and although they can change whenever they want, I don't have to accept it.

It is not enough that "I have the ability to go elsewhere for my imaging / retouching, etc. program.  Adobe owes us in a big way.  We do NOT have to accept this change, when they are taking a program that we all do need and use, and changing our ability to afford it or keep current with features, or when our operating system changes.  I do understand that Adobe wants to make money (I believe that they have, by the way).  But they are changing an understanding, or implicit agreement (whether explicit or "implied" - it does not matter) that we all had with them.  That understanding was that we would be supported in learning, using, and even forming businesses around their product - and we could be assured that they would continue to supply the product in a way that we could dependably and similarly continue to use it.  This is a MAJOR change from the usability that we have come to use, expect, and be comfortable with - and this is NOT acceptable!

As long as Adobe is not satisfied with their subscriber base numbers, they will continue the low initial discount price.  As soon as their numbers approach what they want, the initial discount will end. 

Will prices go up?

Someone asked: "How do I know the prices will go up?"

My initial answer was, "Have you subscribed to any satellite or cable services?"

But here's an example clipped from these very forums:

Creative Cloud billing issues...

Dec 6, 2013 9:04 AM

My year subscription to Adobe Cloud ends in a month and in an email I received it noted that my monthly bill will be going up from 29.99 to 49.99, I have tried to contact Adobe by online messenger and by the phone but no response yet. I am a student at Graduate School and had been paying the student price but now with my renewal it wants me to pay more....something is not right.

If any help could be given, it would be greatly appreciated.

_______________

Imagine your $9.99 Introductory Offer going up to $29.99 after one year.

Because it WILL.

So indeed, we may have no power to change this.  We know that they are going to TRY to do this anyway.

But . . . We can still let them know just how strongly we DO NOT WANT THE CC only.

Please: Everyone write Adobe! Tell them this is wrong!  Tell them NO!

They may actually be listening after all.

Or "go silently into that good night," knowing you just kept quiet and accepted what is best for them, without letting them know how you feel about it!

[D Fosse]

If you really wanted to get into a moral issue, I'd be more concerned with CEO paychecks than customer pricing. That's rapidly becoming a big issue here in Norway, where people are laid off but CEO paychecks skyrocket; sometimes astonishingly adding up to the same total amount.

Anyway, I should think one major consideration trumps all of this: piracy. With the lowered threshold of the subscription model, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the first really effective blow to the hackers. As we all know, activation had absolutely zero effect (and only caused grief for legitimate users).

[roboticaman]

I'm with you 110% on the exhorbitant CEO pay.  It is shameful and unjustifiable.

I see your point on the piracy issue.  If they would just guarranty that the price will not go up (to insane levels) the way that satellite and cable bills have, I would completely be behind the move.

I just cannot abide joining the CC with the "teaser" rate of $9.99 / month, knowing that it will double or triple in a year (because it absolutely will).

I have no use whatsoever for any of the "Cloud" features.

[yatessim]

we must stand up to this now . its a slippery slope if we don't. I will now look else where for software I can buy even if its not as good. we are the customers and we have spoken.

[jaxjoseph158]

As an undergraduate student about to complete his last semester, I have only this to say:

Before the change in business model, it was a foregone conclusion in my mind that I would finally buy Photoshop once I got out into the real world. In fact, I was even about to cave and buy it today until I realized just how much things have changed.

There is security in being able to say that you have paid for something and now own it contractually. I do not want the hassle of having to monitor and calculate the effect of monthly payments. I do not even believe this will be a better deal in the long run.

If this is how it has to be, then I agree with some of the people who posted here. I will seriously look into Photoshop's competitors before I even think about purchasing from Adobe. At best, they are going to get a free trial or two out of me so that I have the experience I need to make that kind of comparison.

Also, I think Creative Cloud is a little tacky overall. But I digress.

[renishasandrin]

I have an interest in digital photography and checked out Adobe Photoshop today.  I wanted to know how much it was going to be as a program as I know editing software isn't cheap.  I noticed it never said anywhere how much it was on the official Adobe webpage and when I went to purchase it I kept getting this Creative Cloud subscription page - which again doesn't answer my question.  I would have really liked to have just bypassed that page altogether and just found out the information I wanted. As a potential new user of the program - I don't know if I will even want the subscription plan even if I love the software - I prefer to buy things outright with no further financial strings attached.   In the end, I just figured "forget it" then went to the Future Shop homepage and did a search for Adobe Photoshop and found the price immediately. 

I am sure that the Creative Cloud subscription plan is awesome.  But as a new user just learning the software I would like to know about that first rather than all these cool add-ons that will cost me so much a month.  Just let me buy the software without all those frills. Then if I choose to want them later I can subscribe and stay updated.

That seems to me an ideal solution - put in a "No thanks, proceed to check-out" option.

[Herbert2001]

renishasandrin wrote:

I am sure that the Creative Cloud subscription plan is awesome.  But as a new user just learning the software I would like to know about that first rather than all these cool add-ons that will cost me so much a month.  Just let me buy the software without all those frills. Then if I choose to want them later I can subscribe and stay updated.

That seems to me an ideal solution - put in a "No thanks, proceed to check-out" option.

It's not such an awesome plan for everyone. Many (most?) are against a "rent forever", and given the choice, would opt for out-right purchase of the applications. But that is no longer an option (CS6 being a red herring here).

renishasandrin wrote:

I have an interest in digital photography and checked out Adobe Photoshop today.  I wanted to know how much it was going to be as a program as I know editing software isn't cheap. 

That seems to me an ideal solution - put in a "No thanks, proceed to check-out" option.

Professional digital photography editing software can actually be very, very affordable. There are alternatives that do an arguably equal or even better job than Adobe's software for digital photo editing. There exist many open source (free) options as well, and a combination of these with affordable commercial alternatives will give you the same possibilities.

Spend some time researching the alternatives - it may save you hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. And you will actually own the software, rather than rent it.

[JasAnge]

I am only a personal user. I don't use photoshop professionally, though I know a number of people who do, I originally purchased Photoshop outright. Since then, I have changed platforms, PC to Mac, my PC crapped itself and is beyond redemption, and asked Adobe about changing over to the new system. I was told that, as my purchase was more than 12 months old, I would have to purchase photoshop outright again for my new mac. Ok, I kind of get that, but I thought that I might get a discount as an existing customer, nope.

Now, when I go to look at buying it outright again, I need to pay for it month by month. Even if I start at $10 a month (photoshop only), I'm locked into a contract for a year, then if I want to continue using it, I need to pay for it, year after year. I'm sorry, I don't need it enough to warrant paying for it that much.

So, here I am, I own photoshop as a program, I apparently made the mistake of changing computer systems and now I can either buy a crap cheap PC to run the CS that I still 'own', or, pay month by month for a program that I will only use rarely, or say goodbye to Adobe.

Looks, like bye bye Adobe. A shame really, I love using the program too.

[Herbert2001]

Well, depending on the software company it will provide a multi-platform license or not. Adobe does when you become their Digital Serf. But, as you found out, not with a CS6 perpetual license.

I am part of the group of users who dislike the Digital Serfdom as you do, and I prefer to own a license that can be used for as long as I wish. Since Adobe doesn't offer perpetual licenses anymore (I already own CS6), I decided to switch to alternatives. I chose Photoline to replace Photoshop, and I am very happy with my decision. I use krita for digital painting (which does a better job than Photoshop).

You may like Photoline (PhotoLine: Download) - in terms of image editing it is about on par with Photoshop, with some omissions, and some improvements. A full license costs about three months of Photoshop (don't forget, you pay $10 per month for the first year, after that it increases to double that amount!), and the license includes both Mac & Windows. And you own the license forever. No monthly upkeeps. The trial is free.

Pixelmator is another good alternative for Macs. Not nearly as powerful, though.

http://www.pixelmator.com/

Also keep an eye out on Affinity Designer, and their Photoshop alternative Affinity Photo (of which the beta version, by the way, can be downloaded here: Affinity Photo - Professional image editing software for Mac

Both are inexpensive, and are gaining a lot of popular traction currently, and perceived as the "Adobe liberation front" for users not wanting to become Digital Serfs.

Or go with Photoshop Elements (which again cannot really compete with the likes of Photoline or Photoshop, though).

[War Unicorn]

People need to get over this idea that they own the software. Whether it's subscription or "perpetual" (as in, "until it doesn't work anymore due to OS upgrades"), you are paying for a license to use the software and that's it. This has been the standard license model for every vendor since time immemorial.

It doesn't need to be said that paying $120 USD per year for full-on Photoshop (that's the entire kit and kaboodle, 3D included that used to be in the Extended version) is an outright steal (at least for photographers and creatives; I can't speak for those that need, say, Illustrator). We can thank Thomas Knoll for all that. He actually pulled strings at Adobe to get the sub cost lowered for Photoshop because he thought it was a bit much (and that's mostly true for those of us who are enthusiasts). So Adobe cut a deal where they'd have a special limited-time offer. It became permanent when it was clear that it made them a ton of money.

For the price you pay per year, you'd have to pay for at least eight years just to equal what you would pay outright for CS6 Extended. By then, Photoshop CC would already be light years ahead of it. (Not just in terms of new features; also performance.)

As an aside, other vendors are getting into the subscription model. Autodesk is doing it with their SketchBook Pro app. They still have a perpetual license, but the writing's on the wall there; you don't get the "new features" support that the sub license has other than technical support. (It sounds a lot like how CS6 is working right now. It gets no new features that CC gets but it's still being supported in the technical field.) Microsoft is doing the same thing for Office.

I could probably wax poetic about the other image editors but I don't want to make this post too long. (e.g., Somebody tell Corel they can try to be Adobe but they're not Adobe where Photoshop's concerned. Learn to make a UI that doesn't make me want to punch a baby in the face.) 

[Herbert2001]

Warunicorn wrote:

People need to get over this idea that they own the software. Whether it's subscription or "perpetual" (as in, "until it doesn't work anymore due to OS upgrades"), you are paying for a license to use the software and that's it. This has been the standard license model for every vendor since time immemorial.

The first major difference is, of course, that once the monthly upkeep is not made, the user loses working access to the native files. That will not happen with a perpetual license.

Secondly, with a perpetual license the user has the choice to NOT update, and keep running the older version indefinitely (or as long as the OS supports that version). This, of course, is one of the major reasons Adobe founded the Digital Serfdom.

It doesn't need to be said that paying $120 USD per year for full-on Photoshop (that's the entire kit and kaboodle, 3D included that used to be in the Extended version) is an outright steal (at least for photographers and creatives; I can't speak for those that need, say, Illustrator). We can thank Thomas Knoll for all that. He actually pulled strings at Adobe to get the sub cost lowered for Photoshop because he thought it was a bit much (and that's mostly true for those of us who are enthusiasts). So Adobe cut a deal where they'd have a special limited-time offer. It became permanent when it was clear that it made them a ton of money.

Sure, to YOU as an individual it is a great deal, and very affordable. And it may be a good deal for many others. But to many others it is not such a great proposal, and those (including myself) would prefer a perpetual license.

The key word, obviously, is CHOICE. No-one complained before Adobe took away the choice: for many becoming a Digital Serf is a great idea; yet for many others it is a repulsive one for various reasons. Before the Digital Serf only option, there was a choice between the two. That is no longer the case.

For the price you pay per year, you'd have to pay for at least eight years just to equal what you would pay outright for CS6 Extended. By then, Photoshop CC would already be light years ahead of it. (Not just in terms of new features; also performance.)

The price paid and perceived value of a product has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Many users and companies would prefer a perpetual license over the Digital Serfdom. Schools all over the world, for example, have been forced to drop Adobe products due to the Digital Serf model (Paris 8 being one example). You might think it is affordable in YOUR particular case - yet, to others the old perpetual licensing model worked in their favour financially. It depends on the given situation.

As an aside, other vendors are getting into the subscription model. Autodesk is doing it with their SketchBook Pro app. They still have a perpetual license, but the writing's on the wall there; you don't get the "new features" support that the sub license has other than technical support. (It sounds a lot like how CS6 is working right now. It gets no new features that CC gets but it's still being supported in the technical field.) Microsoft is doing the same thing for Office.

Merely because other large companies are founding their own Digital Serfdoms, we users would have to abide with that development? That is a classic bandwagon fallacy with a sniff of appealing to authority. The popularity of an idea in the market has absolutely no bearing on its validity. It only goes to show that the Digital Serfdom economy is very attractive to a large software company (for various obvious reasons). However, it will limit the choices of the end user if no option is afforded anymore by allowing for both Digital Serf licenses and perpetual licenses.

I could probably wax poetic about the other image editors but I don't want to make this post too long. (e.g., Somebody tell Corel they can try to be Adobe but they're not Adobe where Photoshop's concerned. Learn to make a UI that doesn't make me want to punch a baby in the face.) 

First of all, that is anecdotal, and dependent on personal choice and experience. I happen to know professionals who swear by CorelDraw, for example, and would not be caught dead with Illustrator. A current student of mine hates Photoshop and loves GIMP. Who are we to tell other people what to love or hate in terms of their software choices?

Anyway, time will tell how this will pan out for Adobe. It certainly opened up the market for alternatives, and Affinity Designer / Photo are only a small part of that movement. Perhaps in ten years time Adobe will be reduced to a wisp of its former glorious self. Perhaps not. Time will tell.  In the meantime I am very happy with the alternatives I am using right now.

[paulaj71267751]

The backlash against Adobe's move to the Creative Cloud has helped spur on the wide, and increasingly wider, range of alternatives to Photoshop. Whether you're looking elsewhere because you can't afford the subscription, or you want to support smaller development houses, or you just don't need all the millions of features that come with Photoshop CC, there are a number of options open to you. The 9 best alternatives to Photoshop | Photoshop | Creative Bloq

[Trevor.Dennis]

paulaj71267751 wrote:

The backlash against Adobe's move to the Creative Cloud has helped spur on the wide, and increasingly wider, range of alternatives to Photoshop. Whether you're looking elsewhere because you can't afford the subscription, or you want to support smaller development houses, or you just don't need all the millions of features that come with Photoshop CC, there are a number of options open to you. The 9 best alternatives to Photoshop | Photoshop | Creative Bloq

I'm not sure what your argument is.  If you are content to use an older version, then why not just keep on using it.  Why would you pay for features that you say you don't need?  Photoshop is a tool for professionals, and they need its continuing development, and tools that streamline their workflow.  To have access to that for just $10 a month is astonishing, and I can't understand how anyone can have issue with.

[paulaj71267751]

>I'm not sure what your argument is.

It's too EXPENSIVE. Adobe has priced me out of the market.

> If you are content to use an older version, then why not just keep on using it.

Because we have to get a new computer as our old one is dying. Since I can't copy over applications I have to buy new software. I am currently happy using my old version of Photoshop but will lose it when we get the new computer so that means I have to buy it again. As I mentioned above I am a senior citizen. I cannot afford to pay $1000 for new software!  I also can't commit to paying by the month for it as I already am struggling to pay for monthly expenses as it is.

>Why would you pay for features that you say you don't need?

I just want to buy something basic that can do what I want IN A BOX NOT IN THE CLOUD where I have to pay by the month.

>Photoshop is a tool for professionals,

I write and illustrate children's books which I self publish. Is that not professional?

>and they need its continuing development, and tools that streamline their workflow.  To have access to that for just $10 a month is astonishing, and I can't understand how anyone can have issue with.

I'm not sure what you are talking about here. I never said anything about paying $10 per month. I just want to find a software that does the same things my old version of Photoshop does that comes in a BOX and that I don't have to pay for by the month in the cloud.

That's ok. Per my previous post with the links for alternatives I'll look into those and buy one of them.