A

Anonymous

Answered

Photoshop 10bit support

Forum|Forum|16 years ago
October 15, 2009
21 replies
106902 views

Hello!

There are 16 and 32bit modes in PS, so my question is: can PS display 10bit color depth per channel if all other components support it? (i.e. Windows 7, ATI FirePro graphics card,10bit monitor connected via Displayport)

If not, will there be an update/plugin? Will the next version of PS support it?

I'm thinking about upgrading. Wouldn't make much sense if the software doesn't support it…

Thanks in advance

Hermann

This topic has been closed for replies.

Correct answer Chris Cox

Actually, the 10 bit/channel display path is working quite well in CS5 - on cards and displays that support it.

Again, we've been working with the manufacturers for a while to get it working...

Show previous replies

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Anonymous

Hi, I would like to know if there are any news abuot 10bit support with nVidia cards. I would like to know if there is the 10-bit option in the driver now and if I can use a GTX285 to work with 10-bit colour depth for each channell. I will probabily buy a SpectraView 271 NEC 10-bit monitor, I already have Photoshop 64 CS5 and Windows 7 64.

Chris Cox

Legend

NVidia has the driver code, and is releasing it on their schedule.

It does require display port, and won't work over DVI.

Check with NVidia for when particular cards may get the driver updates.

A

Anonymous

Thanks for the asnwer. So we can say that at the moment the only solution to have Photoshop running in 10bit for each channell are ATI video cards? I sent several emails to nVidia but I had no aswer. I know for sure that on cards like the FirePRO V4800 you can easly run Photoshop with 10bit color depth.

So what we need to have 10bit now is:
1) Windows 7

2) Photoshop CS5

3) ATI video card with Display Port

4) Monitor with 10bit panel

Is this right?

A

Anonymous

hi there!......

so, this is my expirience........

Win 7 64bit, PScs5, Dell 2711, Ati FirePro 8750, conected thro display port,

latest firepro 8.762 beta5 driver,

yes, all works just fine, U put 10 bit test ramp image in PS and there

is no banding, but in full frame.. windowed.. banding is back, also (of course)

when drag window to another monitor wich has not 10 bit support..........

everithyng looks just nice and work well..... no crashing....

cheers..

bibo.......

dorin_nicolaescu

Inspiring

I might be wrong, but why not just dither 16-bit data for 8-bit display, as Lightroom 3 does, for example? Even the finest gradients seem to look really smooth for all practical purposes. At least there's no need to depend on third parties (displays, graphics cards, drivers, OSes).

Or am I missing something obvious (not so obvious)? Is anyone willing to educate me?

Chris Cox

Legend

For the same reason you don't sprinkle salt on broken glass and call it a window.

Photoshop already dithers when going to the display, because that's the only real option available.

But the 10 bit display path is much higher quality.

Hudechrome

Known Participant

Salt on broken glass. Yum!

Hot or cold, Chris?

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Aleve_Sicofante

Participating Frequently

Has there been any progress about this? I'm about to configure a system for a customer and I'll be using a NEC PA241W monitor, which supports both extended gamut and 10-bpc input.

Windows 7 is ready.

NVidia Quadros are ready.

Is Photoshop CS5 definitely ready?

Any official documentation on the subject yet?

Thanks

Chris Cox

Legend

AMD/ATI has some driver tricks that enable 10 bit in some cases.

But our full support is still waiting on driver testing.

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Aleve_Sicofante

Participating Frequently

Thanks Chris, but from your reply I don't quite get if you mean you're testing ATI drivers or drivers in general. Nvidia officially supports 10 bpc output on their Quadro drivers (NOT on the GeForce series), that's why I have selected them for my Photoshop customers' builds.

So may I ask specifically if you currently provide support for the Nvidia Quadro series, since their drivers do officially support 10 bpc?

E

emaini

Participating Frequently

Hello, I am new to the forum in terms of posting. I usually only read the responses but 10-bit support peaked my interest to the point that I felt like posting. I apologize if the question is stupid but I have had this lingering question for a long time

My understanding is that to get 10-bit color a lot things need to come together

The underlying OS has to support it

The Video Card needs to support it and you need use DisplayPort

The Monitor has to have a 10-LUT (or in the case of the new NEC PA24W, a 3-D LUT) and supports wide gamut aRGB

The Video Driver has to support it so that software can be written against it

Finally, Adobe PS has to write software maybe even specific to a card/driver to display the information correctly

Then, I assume, so that all this work is not lost, I assume you need a 16bit printer driver as well to complete the workflow (which I believe Epson has at least on the Mac but I do know that Vista/Win7 does support)

So, given the above and given that many tutorials today prior to CS5 say "Work in aRGB or ProPhoto", how does one do that if all we have is 8bit sRGB monitors? Can we possibly see the difference?

I am just trying to understand how tutorials and books tell us to use wide gamut color spaces when we all have sRGB and PS only to this point only supports sRGB and we only just now have the possiblity of getting 10-bit wide gamut support.

I am obviously missing something or don't understand what is happening under the hood.

Hopefully my response is not stupid and someone more knowledgeable can explain.

A

Anonymous

emaini, here's how I understand it:

An 8 bit monitor can display a certain number of steps between colours. Until a few years ago most monitors were only able to display the small sRGB colour-space. Depending on how good your monitor is you may or may not see colour-banding with those. But when you have a wide gamut 8bit monitor, the steps between colours stay the same, but get spread out over the wider gamut. The spaces get larger (the transitions between colours get rougher) and banding/tone seperation is more likely to appear. With a higher bit display you increase the number of steps and get rid of banding.

In other words: the „saturation“ or intensity of the colours stays the same, because it's bound to your monitor's gamut, but with 10 bit you get more steps (=more colours) in between.

Quick comment regarding ProPhoto: No monitor is able to display such a huge colour-space. You use it only to preserve colours, to make sure you don't „run out of space“ (=lose colours) while working on your pictures. That's also why you use 16-bit in Photoshop. You can't see it directly, but it gives you more steps between tones and thus helps avoid posterisation.

Hope this helped!

Chris, thanks for keeping us up to date, much appreciated!

L

laglaph

Participant

I asked Adobe support about 10bit/colour channel support and the Nvidia Quadro FX1800 and they referred me to the after effects OpenGL supported card document.

www.adobe.com/products/aftereffects/opengl.html

It does not mention 10bit/colour channel at all. Why can't we get a straight answer? like "no", "yes", "we are still working on it" rather than pretend answers?

Chris Cox

Legend

Read what I already said.

Yes, "we're still working on it".

M

Mikrotom

Participating Frequently

I can confirm that PS5 still does not displays pictures in 10-bit per channel format. Its a shame. Once again SW is far behind HW...

M

Mikrotom

Participating Frequently

So, what is the situation in CS5? Does anybody already knows? Still no 10-bit per channel color output?

Zeno Bokor

Inspiring

Nope, still no support

Chris CoxCorrect answer

Legend

Actually, the 10 bit/channel display path is working quite well in CS5 - on cards and displays that support it.

Again, we've been working with the manufacturers for a while to get it working...

A

Anonymous

If the reviews can be trusted for the Eizo. I did not look in the Eizo forums for the real story.

I did check out the new Dell U2410, just for the heck of it, and the reviewers love it and it has no problems. However, in the Dell forums there are all sorts of Dithering problems and Photoshop problems found in a 7 page thread with the ICM that Dell has duplicated. A fix is in the works. So everything a person reads on the net is not exactly fuzzy kittens.

H

Hudechrome-sd9sPI

Participating Frequently

Test, test test!

A

Anonymous

Ha, you love it don't cha.

A

Anonymous

Since the ability to detect color differences varies greatly between humans anything above 24 bit is a waste of time. Unless a woman is a tetrachromat.

H

Hudechrome-sd9sPI

Participating Frequently

It would not make much sense to have 10-12-14 bit functionality for monitor purposes if the other output devices didn't. Banding for instance. How much aggravation would be encountered to see banding in a print which isn't present on screen? I would want to be forewarned.

It would be interesting if klsteven could print examples of both images displaying banding in 8 bit but certain images in 10 bit did not band, on a 16 bit printer. I believe canon has 16 bit printers.

Banding is my #1 concern these days. Agressive moves with Shadow/Highlight followed by agressive moves in Black and White produce serious banding (as well as other noise components, but the banding is a deal breaker). I could, of course, test it myself and see if the 16 bit file which shows banding on screen and in print shows on the 16 bit printer. Probably will.