Photoshop CS4 is a disaster

[_ProArtist_]

I'm am just at a loss of words.

What a mess. It could not be any slower. What were you thinking Adobe?

You ripped apart the code just to add GPU support for what? To provide worse performance?

Make sure you DL the demo first... CS4 is a disaster.

The latest hardware cant even run it smoothly... Dont tell me its graphic drivers.

[_ProArtist_]

Cloning performance is still poor with the Overlay turned on, but with it off... it seems less error prone.

[Guest]

I still think it's the nvidia 8800's fault. I know that in Premiere Pro the 8800 can't do video overlays although it's spec'd as being compatible.

How many of you have these problems and also own a 8800?

[hhansard]

Scott,

There is an interesting thread on DVi for this particular topic.

There appears to be a nasty rumor going-around that nVidia is encouraging folks to step-up to the FX line by starting to disable some of more advanced features from the other lines. Several folks have reported that as they update to newer and newer driver levels, some features that they used to have are no longer available --- not that they dont work, simply not available. INW, the card can do it, but it is patched-out from the driver. The 8800 is mentioned as a target. It is also supposedly happening at different rates for different platforms. PP overlay is also specifically mentioned.

I have no idea if this is true; I have used FX cards since their inception, so absolutely no first-hand knowledge of the other lines.

Hope it helps,

H

[hhansard]

I should have clarified my earlier post on the speed test. I was interested in a real-world scenario, so I simply downloaded the files and ran the test on my existing system in its normal state and got a time of 53 seconds. After turning-off a few things (Bridge, LR, PP and stopped iTunes from blasting Depeche Mode), I got the speed test to 41 seconds. I still have some very invasive stuff running (AVP, Ghost, etc), but I seldom disable them.

I have noticed some very long times being reported in this thread. I just tried this on my laptop and get a time of about 1m.20s.

In a previous post, I mentioned that for those PS folks who are not into NLE or compositing, you should visit some of the sites. These folks have made an art out of sucking every last ounce of performance from a system. After all, a 60 second fully composited broadcast commercial can take 4 hours to render. The documentary I am working-on takes 43 hours. Every minute counts.

There are some excellent 40+ page PDFs on tuning. Adobe has also published a pretty good one. When I install an XP setup, I can disable about 20 services just dont need them. I also need to make about 20 registry entries. It all adds-up. Google is your friend.

This is all CS4 and it all works fine (and this is important, for me) some glitches along the way (I am working with AE engineering on one now). To be clear, there are problems with PS OGL does not work at all (for me). Many of PPs problems are addressed by some patches. The engineering teams are working the issues.

Now, if you want to see truly hostile threads, just visit the LR forums.

Hope it helps,

H

[_ProArtist_]

Nvidia is clearly trying to squeeze everyone into their overly priced "high end" hardware. You have only one real choice, buy it or go screw.

I'm sure that will take them far in this wonderful economy.

Hopefully Intel will put Nvidia on the defensive soon and provide much more functionality at the multi core level.

I love Nvidia but they lost their mind and their dedication to affordable power.

[mom2one]

I ran the test and got 31.1 sec using the 64-bit app and 31.8 sec using 32-bit. Not much difference really. Both with OGL enabled. Latest 180.20 drivers for Quadro FX4500 (posted yesterday). Outlook and Opera and AV/firewall running in the background.

My system is over 2 years old.

I don't think this test is valid for the brush/clone issues since it doesn't push pixels around my 2560 x 1600 monitor. On some files, some relatively small 2500x2500px with lots of adjustment layers and layer effects, I have to make the image the size of a postage stamp to get anything moving with any speed.

XP-64
16GB DDR2 5300 RAM (running in quad channel mode)
twin xeon dual core processors 3.73GHZ (8 cores with HT on)
Quadro FX4500 180.20 drivers

Everything else works perfectly on my system and for the work I do normally, it outperforms CS3.

[hhansard]

Jacqui,

We have almost identical systems. I disabled HT because I was having problems with some apps. My card is a newer generation than the 4500 -- although I love the 4500 and am going to e-bay it this week. Should go for about $600 -- considering what I paid, that is sad...

I use XP SP3-32 exclusively.

Same vid driver. Did you get OGL to work? Do you disable "Allow Application Settings" in the driver?

I am assuming with these numbers, you are splitting everything up to separate spindles. 15K SCSI?

BTW, I checked their site; it looks like 31s is close to the fastest time ever reported.

Want to have a race?

H

[_Q_Photo_]

ProArtist,
Glad you are making progress.
Q

[hhansard]

While we are on the subject of tuning and improving overall PS performance, I will share the utilities that I use. Some are freeware, some shareware and some commercial:

System Mechanic Pro
Reg Defense
Diskeeper Pro (you need to be careful here)
ServWin
XPepius
Dirsize
Driver Sweeper
Empty Folder Nuker

I have no stake in any of these utilities. Just want to pass-along some tools that I have found useful.

Also a good FAQ on tuning XP can be found at:

http://www.videoguys.com/WinXP.html

H

[hhansard]

Jacqui,

Wanted to thank you for reminding me about HT. I have stopped using the app that was giving me problems, so I re-enabled. Overall system performance is greatly improved. Not just PS, but the entire system. I am assuming you are using the Intel chipset. What BIOS and driver rev for the chipset? What memory options are you using?

I can not touch your numbers for the speed test. Suspect some of my more invasive apps are in the way ... just too lazy to reconfigure. Shaved a bit of time, but not much.

Thanks again,

H

[mom2one]

Hugh,

Although I have onboard perc/SAS etc. I actually have one 10K hard drive (SATA) for the operating system and programs, a 1TB hard drive for my working files and two 150GB 10K raptors in a RAID 0 configuration dedicated to PS scratch. My OGL is enabled but all the advanced settings are disabled.

I have tried just about every different setting in the nVidia display drivers and have settled with the following:

Ansitropic filtering - off
Antialiasing - Gamma correction - off
Antialiasing - Setting - Application-controlled
Antialiasing - Transparency - off
Buffer-flipping mode - Auto-select
Conformant texture clamp - Use hardware
Enable overlay - off
Error reporting - off
Exported pixel types - Color indexed overlays (8 bpp)
Extension limit - off
Force stereo shuttering - off
Maximize texture memory - off
Maximum pre-rendered frames - 0
Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration - Compatibility performance mode
Stereo - Display mode - Use on-board DIN connector
Stereo - Enable - off
Stereo - Swap eyes - off
Threaded optimization - Auto
Triple buffering - off
Unified back/depth buffer - on
Vertical sync - Force off

OGL is working great, really fast zoom and rotation. Typing text is smooth and fast.

I use blackviper.com to help trim some of the services. I have 26 processes running after startup (3 of them are for the Wacom intuos 3)and no errors in the event viewer.

Snoop filter is on and HT is enabled.

I use a free disk defrag utility (JKdefrag64)I also have Ad-Aware SE, Qimage, Office 2003, Quark Xpress 7.3 and Corel X4 along with a heap of plug-ins, AutoFX Dreamsuite and Page Edges, neat-image 32 & 64 bit, HP print drivers and Epson scanner driver. Opera, Firefox 3, IE 7 (32 & 64 bit)CS4 Design premium, Lightroom 64, FotoFusion, PowerDVD, Roxio, Silkypix and ESET smart security.

Many newer systems should be faster than this - I purchased this system in September 2006.

Jacqui

Edit: p.s. for Hugh BIOS is A07 and Intel chipset 5000:
Title: Chip Set: Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility Driver
Version : A14
OEM name : Intel
OEM Version: 7.3.0.1012

[hhansard]

Jacqui,

We have the same chipset and drivers. I'll enable Snoop.

dedicated 4GB/sec FC array for scratch raid 0
dedicated 4GB/sec FC array for images raid 3
dedicated 15K SCSI 320 spindel for page
same for programs and system

I'll try your video settings.

Would you mind doing a print screen of your processes, or dump from the services startup? I am impressed, I have never been able to get it that low -- not even close. Would like to see what you were able to accomplish.

Do you have Adobe's utility to check OGL compatability? Could you send me the version of OGL on your 4500? I could not get any OGL on my 4500.

Thanks in advance,

H

[Mike Sargent]

Pro Artist

Thanks, your OpenGL settings helped a lot with my performance issues, brush lag has improved immeasurably, pen tool is now perfectly usable but still experiencing some lag with the clone tool.

All in all, your settings will allow me to use CS4 for work.

By the way I'm using a 8600GT (256Mb).

Thanks again.

[shoot_me_now-d3u3se]

>blackviper.com

smokes crack. Download SmartClose or similar app and shut down services and processes selectively. I run SC before I have a heavy duty session in Photoshop (also invoke the 3G switch).

[_Ron_Dodson_]

Pro Artist

I also give thanks for your OGL settings. They helped enormously. Currently running DEll M1730 with 8800M SLi; RAM = 4G, using /3G switch; 2x200 7500 HD in Raid 0; Wacom Intuos 3; and use Windows XP SP3.

All OGl-based functions work well on laptop. I have a DELL 24" external monitor running as well and all functions work well except truncated cursor. So, I defer to Nvidia to help with that issue since the laptop cursor runs well.

I will try Jacqui's Nvidia settings to see if they provide further improvement. I am using Nvidia's 179.28 Beta on my machine (from Nvidia site).

[_Ron_Dodson_]

Almost forgot. I saw a 50% improvement (at least) when I removed McAfee AV Suite and replaced with free AntiVir program. Then I applied Pro Artist's settings. In combination I now have a system that can wait for Adobe patch and that ever elusive, "upgraded driver" from Nvidia (oh, let's throw in Microsoft as well until we get Windows 7).

Thanks to all in this forum for sharing your experiences.

[mom2one]

Hugh,

I have a screen print of my processes here:

http://www.pbase.com/jacquidervan/image/108025809/large.jpg

and services here:

http://www.pbase.com/jacquidervan/image/108025815/large.jpg (part 1)
http://www.pbase.com/jacquidervan/image/108025826/large.jpg (part 2)

I don't have Adobe's utility to check OGL compatibility, but I know that the 4500 is listed on their website as compatible. It is my understanding that the limiting factor is the operating system as opposed to the video card. I don't know how to find the OGL version but here is a screen print of the driver details with OGL driver at the top:

http://www.pbase.com/jacquidervan/image/108026812/medium.jpg

OGL rotate:

http://www.pbase.com/jacquidervan/image/108028412/large.jpg

I can spin images around from the 1Ds MKII so fast it makes you dizzy, but getting the brushes to work at a reasonable speed on some much smaller images with adjustment layers and layer styles is quite slow unless I reduce the size considerably. Like others have reported, the lag builds up and I have had some strokes take 9 seconds or more to catch up. Good luck with your tweaking.

[shoot_me_now-d3u3se]

>I have a screen print of my processes here...

Me too. Note that of the 20 running processes, one is Task Manager and two are from Eset (NOD32 antivirus). I could kill the Eset service but I just disable scanning instead. So, a workable minimum for me is 19 running process thanks to SmartClose.

http://www.pbase.com/ho72/image/108029521/original.jpg

[mom2one]

Ho

Your services are similar to mine except that I have Acrobat, my nVidia drivers and my Wacom drivers up and running (can't do without them). On the other hand, you could possibly lose ALG service? The uphclean too unless you are having shutdown issues/Userenv events occurring. MS sent me a 64-bit version of that utility because I get a Userenv warning at shutdown if I have been printing. I chose not to install since it doesn't interfere with the shutdown process.

I must admit I prefer to be in control of what services I allow to run as opposed to handing control over to software. I'm paranoid :)

[Hudechrome-sd9sPI]

You really have to be careful over starting and stopping Services. There are dependencies involved (what starts and when) in the mix, as well as overall timing issues, (exacerbated in Vista, BTW). Some services start before the GUI and some run whether or not the GUi is actually running.

[shoot_me_now-d3u3se]

Jacqui,

I leave ALG alone because it has such a small footprint in memory that I don't think it matters much. Plus, I sometimes use Windows firewall and my understanding is that WF requires it.

I installed uphclean when I *was* having shutdown events. I haven't had any since and, again, another small amount of memory resources are required so...

As to being in control, the software I use allows the user to configure what does and does not get shut down, so there's not really much to be paranoid about. I did the Black Viper thing back in the W2K days and the tweaks were OK, although I would sometimes run into something that didn't work and then I'd have to sort out why. With SmartClose, everything runs (unless I've changed it to Manual/Disabled in in Services.msc) and I don't have to solve any mysteries.

Thanks for the pointers. :)

[_ProArtist_]

No problem guys.

I will probably post another message with those settings in a new thread for folks to try. They will probably get lost in this thread other wise.

Glad they helped for some

[hhansard]

There is a thread on OGL [specifically nVidia] settings, but transportable. I posted a link to it about a week ago.

I agree, this thread is now getting too complex to navigate. Maybe the moderators should close this one and folks split the topics into sperate threads.

I have now seen four sets of nVidia settings. I used the ones from the other thread and they were helpful.

Maybe a comparison experiment against the various settings?

Anyone got some free time?

H

[hhansard]

Ho,

Thanks for the SmartClose hint. Really a great find. Thanks for passing it along.

It appears you can edit the ini to modify what gets closed. Have you added services to the ini?

H

[shoot_me_now-d3u3se]

Hugh,
I've not edited the ini, just selected apps and services from the available menu. There's really nothing left running when SmartClose is done that I want to terminate anyway.

There are other utilites that perform the same sort of function, some more aggresive than others. Here are three more that you might want to check out (I can't endorse them because I haven't used them).

http://www.rsdsoft.com/task_killer/index.php4

http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Skrommel/index.html#CloseMany

http://orangelampsoftware.com/products_killprocess.php