Photoshop CS4 is a disaster

[_ProArtist_]

I'm am just at a loss of words.

What a mess. It could not be any slower. What were you thinking Adobe?

You ripped apart the code just to add GPU support for what? To provide worse performance?

Make sure you DL the demo first... CS4 is a disaster.

The latest hardware cant even run it smoothly... Dont tell me its graphic drivers.

[Guest]

Your welcome Lauri

Good luck

[Walter Elias]

I'll put in my opinion that it is Adobe's responsibility. This forum is not indicative of the general user base. I'd be curious how many bug reports Adobe has received from people who never come to this forum, or how many complaints people have made to the retailers where they bought the programs.

Adobe has a huge variety of users, from students, hobbyists and dabblers, to seasoned pros. Many people will buy the Web Premium suite, for example, because they are Dreamweaver or Flash users, but need Photoshop as a peripheral program for creating graphics. These are not power users. And when they experience the performance problems, they probably shrug and think that Photoshop simply sucks by default and thank God they don't need to use it often.

Video card drivers may be faulty, hardware may be slightly different in individual systems, but the general consensus among those reporting the problem (including me) is that these performance problems didn't exist in CS3 and earlier, using the same equipment. The code should be robust enough, and generic enough, to handle all current hardware and CURRENT drivers. I'll add that other graphics programs I use which have OpenGL options, do not experience any lag.

I frankly resent some of the smug comments from hardcore users here on this forum, the ones not experiencing problems, using terms like "whining" and implying that those of us who are disappointed with CS4 just don't have it together technically. Screw you. I eagerly bought the CS4 upgrade the moment it came out. I own a video card on Adobe's "approved" list. I have a clean system. I experienced significant problems with Photoshop. Some of the workarounds have helped me achieve mediocre rather than poor performance; an improvement, but still hugely disappointing. And if I complain, I'm whining?

I definitely don't blame Adobe engineers and programmers. It's clear that Adam and Chris are the tip of the iceberg of programmers trying to set things right. And I'm sure no one in the development team would have allowed this version to be released if they'd been aware of the GPU problem earlier. But management obviously rushed the entire CS4 suite release prematurely to meet a sales deadline (it ain't just Photoshop: Flash CS4 is so extremely buggy I wouldn't even rate it as beta). It was also a management decision to limit the Photoshop beta testers to a set group, all of whom are likely super-advanced users with high-end hardware. Same with Flash (that I know for sure, since I know some of the beta testers). As a result, huge numbers of bugs go undetected because this user group doesn't access those functions as part of their work.

Adobe placed Dreamweaver CS4 for public beta, by contrast. I tried it, it was a real MESS. But they got a large volume of feedback from every type of user, and the release version is, so far, pretty tight. Makes a big difference when you let more than just your friends noodle around and find bugs that the power users might not discover.

They certainly would have heard of this GPU issue months ago if they had a less exclusive beta tester list. And at this point I think it's Adobe's sole responsibility to engineer a solution. I believe that they are working on it. The anger in this post is directed to the "I'm all right Jack" forum regulars who are so bemused by people like me.

[_Mark_John_Murphy_]

I have not checked back in a while. Has Adobe yet realized that they have a major malfunction on their hands and need to either recall CS4 or include a computer that will run the software in the shrinkwrapped box? I am a long time photoshop user and this is the first screw up of this magnitude that I have witnessed. Suggestion: pull out all of that malfunctioning GPU code and go back to depending on just having fast main processor chip(s). Tell the early CS4 adopters, heh, heh, just kidding, pull the software, get the thing right..... and then
re-release!!!!!!

[_Jess_Ting_]

Just wanted to add my $2 cents to this discussion in case someone from Adobe is reading. I upgraded from CS3 to CS4 and have just requested a refund from Adobe. In my opinion, CS4 is not ready for release and should have stayed in beta. I've had numberous video card issues, random crashes and locks since installing CS4. It also runs slowly for me -- no advantage compared to CS3. I've upgraded the video card drivers, the Wacom drivers, and done every microsoft update to no avail. I used Photoshop for over a decade and this release has been the most troublesome so far.

Dell XPS 720
Intel Core 2 Quad 2.66 GHz
Windows XP x64 SP2
Nvidia 6800 GTS
8 Gigs RAM

[Semaphoric]

I was getting apprehensive, reading threads like this, as I was re-building my system [Asus P5Q DeLuxe, Intel Core 2 Quad 3.0 GHz, Vista Business 64-bit, 4GB RAM, ATI Fire GL 3600] to handle the upgrade from CS2 to CS4, but so far, I have no complaints.

Everything really flies. All the GPU stuff works as advertized. I am quite happy with it all.

[_Phos_four_dots_]

Blame marketing and bean counters.

[Guest]

I presume you were responding to Jess Ting Phos!

(He must be Jess Ting!)

[Guest]

I'm beginning to notice that most of the problems occur on pre-builts and I was wondering whether some crap installed by the builders was causing the problems.

It might be a case where a complete re-install of the OS, sans the builder's crap, would solve most of these problems.

As per JRN who built his own system as I did and others who use pre-builts but reformat/re-install the OS before moving forward.

[Guest]

Dell workstations come without crap!

And have matched components that are tested together.

[_mlkgrant_]

I just wanted to put my 2 cents in. I haven't noticed any lag between CS3 and CS4, though I am a newBE in using CS anything, I use CS4 Web Premium. I've followed some tutorials on lynda.com and all worked as advertized. I do this in a dual monitor mode using the 780i SLI motherboard with a Q6600 quad core processor, and 4 GB RAM. My graphics card is the ATI Radeon HD4870 X2 2GB memory. My 32" HDTV is connected via DVI to HDMI, and I use that monitor for watching training videos, and preform task on my 22" SyncMaster 2253bw set at 1680 x 1050 @ 60Hz. Of course, I haven't enough experience with Photoshop's more advanced features yet to say anything about those, but the rotate image works even with large TIFF or JPEG file formats for me. My system's only 2 months old as of today, (happy birthday) almost time to upgrade... :)

[Guest]

JJ: You mean that Dell did not install any of their 'own software' anywhere on the system? Highly unlikely.

[Hudechrome-sd9sPI]

Dell (and others, most likely) will not allow a spec by the buyer that stops with only the OS. They insist on their particular AV, for instance. I can understand that for the general public, but for the computer capable, that's not acceptable. If they insist on shipping with a/v, then there should be allowance for the buyers preference. As is true for anything else.

With Dell, wouldn't it be true that to re-install (now from a partition, not a disk), you would simply be re-installing all their preferences for add-ons?

[BobLevine]

Dell ships all of its machines with an operating system disk, not a
recovery disk. You can do a clean install of the operating system sans junk.

If you buy from the small business side (which I highly recommend) you
can buy machines no junk at all on them.

Bob

[Guest]

Nope. The only thing from them is a small partition with the recovery files on it.

Edit: Larry you obviously haven't bought a Dell Workstation lately. I even had to buy my AV program!

[Guest]

That's where I got mine.

[Guest]

>If you buy from the small business side (which I highly recommend) you
can buy machines no junk at all on them.

that's what i was gonna say. and the prices are usually better on comparable systems vs. the consumer (home user) side.

[Walter Elias]

I have a professional work station I built myself, with the help of an uber-geek friend. Not a single unnecessary piece of junk was installed, and I regularly disable and uninstall junk such as all those annoyances that come with so many programs which continually scan for updates.

I also have a self-built computer filled with junk installed by my teenage son.

CS4 lag problems on both of my systems. Ironically, it's worse on the "clean" workstation.

No Dell or other pre-built computers. Though my view of Dell (which my wife has) is that they come installed relatively cleanly. The only thing to get rid of is the trial version of an AV program.

[_Mark_John_Murphy_]

If Adobe is depending on folks to build their own machines and re-install the operating system to get CS4 to work, they have lost touch with reality. Only a tiny percentage of the user base know about building machines or even want to think about re-installing the operating system. That is way to disruptive to even contemplate.

I want to spend my time creating in photoshop. Make me a version that runs on the "common" hardware currently available from Dell, HP, whoever. You can make another version for the 10 people who give a crap about building their own machines and messing around with operating systems. There is discussion here now about maybe the software installed on Dell, etc. machines when shipped is the problem? Pulleeeeeeze. Get real. Wake me when Cs4 is fixed.

[ArrrBee]

When I went from CS3 to CS4 I couldn't install CS4 because of a profile
being locked. Even with technical supports help we couldn't get the file
rights/permissions to unlock the file. The only way I could get CS4 to
install was to backup my data (easy since most is on a secondary drive)
format, reinstall Windows and then install CS4. This worked fine. It is a
lot of work and yah it does miff me a bit but I look at the bright side of
it and that is it fushed Windows system and now everything is nice and clean
and tidy. I like to compare to have a stopped drain, you can use liquid
plumber to get the water flowing again, but using a drain snake really
cleans it out and removes any nasty build up. Since when you install and
uninstall stuff you never really get rid of all of it, doing this from time
to time isn't a bad idea. But, having to do this to get a program installed
is a bit of a miff.

Yes, I did remove CS3 before hand, that was one of the first things I did
and one of the first things technical support asked about. In the end it was
all down to one profile file that just wouldn't let itself be overwritten
and there was nothing that could be done to get to let itself be
overwritten. I have had this happen with two files on my desktop, they were
zero byte files but I couldn't delete the icons for them.

Robert

[Guest]

> If Adobe is depending on folks to build their own machines and re-install the operating system to get CS4 to work, they have lost touch with reality.

Several people have installed CS4 successfully on a shop-bought system (Dell in my case) and everything works fine straight out of the box.

[Guest]

True!

[John Mensinger]

> Several people have installed CS4 successfully on a shop-bought system (Dell in my case) and everything works fine straight out of the box.

Dell Precision Workstation T7400 here with nothing added but an additional drive. Installed the trial version of CS4 last week. Had to update the NVIDIA Quadro FX 570 driver to address the incomplete brush cursor effect. Since then, nothing but pure delight, (aside from the trial-nag screen once per session).

[_Steven_Benier_]

I picked up on the earlier references about those that just watch and don't speak up.

I have had the same issues with CS4 which sparked this thread, although I can add that importing 3d files provides only vertices and selecting any other render settings makes the model dissappear altogether.

I find the whole issue frustrating and tending to lift the blood pressure after two weeks of fiddling with this and that. I will be reloading windows later this week, in one last attempt to make some difference. If that fails (and it has for several friends). I'm just putting CS4 back on the shelf and listing it as too hard and too expensive to spend any more time on. It will be back to CS3 until (or if) it ever gets sorted out ... or if enough time passes before I buy a new system (say 18 to 24 months).

Not angry, just unhappy and poorer for the experience. I hope the issues get sorted quickly but I'm not holding my breath

XP Professional SP 3

Intel Pentium Dual Core 3.2 GHz

3.25 Gb Ram

(Leadtek)Nvidia Quadro FX 4500 512 Mb with Release 178 (178.46) Nov 08 driver

Steve B

[_Adam_Jerugim_]

Finally, an update...

I may have identified one of the root causes, but now I need your help to make sure that the change I'm testing actually fixes the problem for *you*.

So, if you're experiencing a "lag" in performance when using CS4 on Windows, even with all OGL features disabled, and are interesting in helping me test possible solutions, please email me directly at travlin_adam at yahoo dot com (my non-adobe email addy). I'm interested in all Windows OS, but especially newer systems running Vista Sp1.

Also I'll make this request again, if you are seeing a performance lag with CS4 and live in the SF bay area, please contact me directly.

-Adam

[_Sue_Surdam_]

Hmm...I just got off the phone with a tech and here is what I learned. In order to have the features that use opengl work correctly you have to have Windows Vista as the operating system because Vista exclusive DirectX 10 is needed. I was so shocked to find this out I asked the tech to explain it twice.

Now I have to say that isn't listed in the system requirements section on the web site where they are selling CS4, my computer matches or exceeds the requirements listed there. Here is my question, why list XP as operating system choice if it can't fully run the program? I am not going to put Vista on my computer ever...I have been forced to use it at work and it is horrible. Perhaps there will be a work around for XP users with DirectX 9.

If my understanding of all this is wrong, please let me know as I would love to be able to use CS4.