Inspiring

Question

Photoshop not showing correct colors. Update after 3 weeks of troubleshooting.

Forum|Forum|1 year ago
May 5, 2024
8 replies
13353 views

Hey PS community!

For those with the same problem; having Photoshop lifting black levels. As shown here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izYDPxoH-QM (Also happens with the default Adobe RGB 1998 profile)

Together with other artists we found out this only happens on Mac M2 chips, we tested with three different monitors (sRGB, DCI-P3, AdobeRGB), three different calibration tools (Spyder5, SpyderX, Calibrite Display SL) and three different Macs (M2 Studio Max 32, M2 Studio Max 64 and a M2 Mini Pro 16)

Which leaves us at the conclusion that the M2 chips and Photoshop causing this bug. Adobe Customer Service only thought that turning PS on/off without a monitor attached could fix the problem, but as this is quite hard to do with a M2 Max/Mini I am waiting until they fix this and considering other software in the meantime.

macOS

TheBeatnikHimself

Known Participant

The issue is undoubtedly present in Photoshop. When I export an image from Lightroom into Luminar Neo using the AdobeRGB(1998) color space, the result is as expected. However, this does not occur in Photoshop regardless of my attempts to resolve the problem.

It is important to note that this issue is not related to the GPU in Mac computers. If someone tell you it is ask for proof. Rather, it is a specific problem with Adobe Photoshop.

D Fosse

Community Expert

It is important to note that this issue is not related to the GPU in Mac computers. Rather, it is a specific problem with Adobe Photoshop.

By @TheBeatnikHimself

I demonstrated correct behavior, further up, on a Windows machine. It does not occur on Windows.

TheBeatnikHimself

Known Participant

Just hard the GPU physically tested at an apple store. Seems that everything is running fine. I also ran my computer at their store and used a different monitor. Same results.

This is 100% an issue with the adobe software!

Noone at Adobe will conceded this fact even though I have proven it repeatedly.

This is a horrible situation.

TheBeatnikHimself

Known Participant

For me, this does not happen in sRGB, but it does in all other color profiles.

R

riccknlAuthor

Inspiring

Update jan10 2025

I had to do some PS work very last moment for a client yesterday and I couldn't commute to my studio where my old iMac peacefully resides with a working PS. So something that is quite interesting to me (might be obvious tho) is that when I open an image through LR (edit in PS, through rightmouse click) It's only visible within REALLY deep shadows, but way less obvious than opening up a RAW file and converting it through ACR into PS, which renders the image unusable.

So using LR as catalog and RAW-converter, with bright images, it is possible to edit them in PS through LR. Might be a good work-around if you're also struggling with this bug!

[abuse removed by moderator]

A

Aytaç

Participating Frequently

I just tried what you suggested to see if I had missed anything (because I always use Lightroom -> Edit > Photoshop).

Unfortunately, I didn’t notice any difference. It still works poorly. But I’m not bothered by it anymore because I’ve decided to switch back to Windows.

I’ve been using macOS for the past three years and have adapted quite well to the system. However, there are so many bugs and issues that it’s beyond frustrating. Finder is buggy, the SMB protocol (network) is buggy and doesn’t follow standards. 2K screen can not show clear text, 4K screen cant show 1:1 pixel when using scaled resuliton when you zoom in at %100.. I even replaced my entire mouse and keyboard setup just to make them work properly on macOS, but this is too much now. My experience with Apple started with the M1, but now I’m ending it and have listed everything for sale in the second-hand market.

The funniest thing is that on a MacBook with an XDR display, everything works fine when I select the D65 Photography preset (same as my calibrated/profiled screen). But when I switch back to the normal profile, the blacks look pitch black. In my opinion, their systems don’t even work properly within themselves. Also, I’ve seen tons of people online complaining about gamma issues when editing videos, so we are not alone in this.

For me, macOS is done, plain and simple. Thanks to everyone who researched and provided support on this topic.

R

riccknlAuthor

Inspiring

Hey Aytaç! Good to read you can go on with your work. It's crazy that Apple is f•cking up this bad.

Problem for me is that I can't just chuck all my apple stuff out and buy into windows, as I really like the interface and interconnectivity I enjoy. Also, I spend almost all my savings on this Mac + Monitor, so I couldn't even buy into a windows system even if I wanted too :')

I will start contacting apple about this issue again and I hope/expect they will have to fix this rather soon as most creative/art people are working with Macs.. Crazy stuff..!

Also, the amount of photographers/designers that do not calibrate their screens is insane! I asked around A LOT and 99% replied 'I just use it the way it came out of the box' 🙂

Anyway, thank you all for putting effort into diagnosing the problem, I will use the thread for Apple.

A

Aytaç

Participating Frequently

Hi @riccknl , @D Fosse , @NB, colourmanagement ,

I am experiencing the same problem on my MacBook Air M1, so it’s not limited to M2 chips.
I’ve been struggling with this issue for almost four weeks now, and there’s still no solution.

I compared the results with a Windows machine / gamma 2.2, and the best workaround I’ve found is to set Photoshop’s color management to Apple CMM (best matchs). Adobe ACE doesn’t seem to work (sorry, Apple!).

The Lightroom Library module is also problematic. However, the Lightroom Develop module appears consistent with Apple CMM, as does Photoshop when using Apple’s CMM.

When I calibrate and profile my Windows machine and compare it to macOS (same monitor), the closest match I get is with Lightroom Develop and Photoshop set to Apple CMM.

At this point, I’m not even sure what’s accurate anymore. Most Apple displays and tablets with good screens seem to show a perfect sRGB gamma curve. Gamma 2.2 lifts the RGB 1 values to around RGB 3 (also on windows), while Photoshop ACE increases them to RGB 6!

Here’s a link to my thread on DisplayCAL:
https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/black-levels-at-standard-srgb-icc-vs-profiled-icc/page/2/

Detailed comperassion with Windows vs macOS: https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/black-levels-at-standard-srgb-icc-vs-profiled-icc/page/2/#post-142534

By the way, if you set your Tone Curve to sRGB, there’s no issue—everything across apps and macOS aligns. The problem arises when profiling is applied with gamma 2.2. I'm now considering to use sRGB gamma curve, because it's best match with most common devices, monitors, tablets, cellphones. But i dont know witch is correct anymore 😃

If there’s any further news, please let me know.

D Fosse

Community Expert

@Aytaç

This is apparently a bug in MacOS, and if you're still seeing it on an all-current system, they haven't fixed it.

If you look further up in the thread, I posted a procedure (with screenshots) to determine what the correct display of the file should be. It's pretty simple and straightforward. That will give you a baseline and it shouldn't be necessary to try all kinds of comparisons.

We have already determined two variables that affect this. One is LUT (table-) based monitor profiles. MacOS does not treat these correctly, and that seems to be pretty consistent. You need to use matrix-based monitor profiles on a Mac.

The other is the color management engine. It seems that the Apple color engine shows less symptoms than the Adobe color engine. That in itself qualifies as a bug, of course, it should display correctly in both cases. This isn't open to interpretations.

NB, colourmanagement

Community Expert

@D Fosse "LUT (table-) based monitor profiles. MacOS does not treat these correctly, and that seems to be pretty consistent. You need to use matrix-based monitor profiles on a Mac."

absolutely right and rather frustrating.

This note is from my friends at basICColor who make a nice display calibration /profiling software

"CAUTION: Monitor profiles in Mac OS 10.12 and higher

A perfect monitor profile is essential for a color correct visualisation of your pictures!

Especially in a multi-monitor environment under MacOS Sierra and higher the user will be logged out if you use LUT-based monitor profiles. In any case your Icons and other elements on the desktop will look whacked and your images in Apple´s programs (e.g. Preview) will not be color correct. Wide-gamut displays will show totally oversaturated colors.

By all means, set your profiling application in MacOS Sierra and later to „Matrix based“, if your software offers this option – like e.g. basICColor display! Other less professional programs make matrix-based profiles only, anyway.

With a high-end hardware-calibrateable monitor you will see no difference in quality between LUT-based and matrix-based profiles."

I hope this helps neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right' google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management Help others by clicking "Correct Answer" if the question is answered. Found the answer elsewhere? Share it here. "Upvote" is for useful posts.

T

timk10691763

Participating Frequently

I have the same exact problem. Any news on this?

Thanks

/Tim

D Fosse

Community Expert

Run the procedure I described directly above your post. This will determine what the correct appearance on screen should be. The immediate impulse is to assume the high-contrast version is correct, but in fact it's usually the opposite. Higher contrast often indicates excessive/incorrect clipping.

We've seen quite a few of these in the forum, all on Mac. Apparently it's a bug in MacOS's GPU driver component.

One thing we've established is that LUT (table-) based monitor profiles don't work well in MacOS, and excessive black clipping is the common symptom. If you're using LUT profiles, rerun your calibrator, this time set to make a matrix monitor profile.

Other users have reported that switching from the Adobe color engine to the Apple color engine improves it. It's still a bug, it should work with both color engines, but sometimes the main thing is just to get back in business.

D Fosse

Community Expert

@D Fosse

Thank you for your reply.

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But the point is - it doesn't matter. The monitor doesn't need to match anything. It can just be itself. This is all mapped in detail in the monitor profile, whatever the curve is.

Calibration isn't high precision, and it doesn't need to be. Ballpark is good enough. The rest is handled by color management and the monitor profile, which is based on measuring the response after calibration. The main purpose of setting a gamma in the calibrator is to make sure the monitor stays reasonably close to native response, for best behavior.

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So, are you saying the native TRC (Tone Response Curve) is the best option for a good factory-calibrated monitor?

When I calibrate and profile my screen to use the sRGB TRC, I notice deeper blacks. However, when I use gamma 2.2, the blacks appear lighter—this holds true even on Windows, where the display behavior is consistent across programs.

If I calibrate/profile my monitor to gamma 2.2 and open an sRGB image, why don’t I see the deeper blacks? I understand that the output to the monitor may not be linear, but isn’t the color management system supposed to correct for this? (or less deeper blacks).

For context, I’m working with sRGB images exported from Lightroom (with the sRGB ICC embedded). I’ve also tested using RAW files.

I did try your test for the first time i saw but, i dont still know witch one is correct. Because, i miss some information.

- Must i load the calibrated/profiled .icc or need i load the standart EDID data for it? ( I loaded the calibrated MonitorProfile)

(1) - I open the file in Photoshop, take a screenshot of it.

(1) - File > New > Color Profile is = MonitorProfile

(2) - Pasted the screenshot, so MonitorProfile is already loaded in to it then.

(2) - Edit > Convert to profile > Adobe RGB (1998)

(2) - Result = Exacly the same as your original picture.

(3) - Original downloaded picture > Filter > Camera Raw Filter

(3) - Pasted the screenshot, so MonitorProfile is already loaded in to it then.

(3) - Edit > Convert to profile > Adobe RGB (1998)
(3) - Result = A little bit darker, deeper blacks, but still no cut off. Better contrast overall and blacks are not lifted.

I'm doing it right?

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The lighter shadows is the correct version.

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Also i added my screen calibration TRC with sRGB and Standard 2.2 gamma for reference.

The problem with sRGB is that it has a flat "toe" near black. sRGB was originally specified to describe the behavior of a typical CRT monitor. But LCDs don't have the exact same characteristics, so in a way, sRGB is a bit of an orphan.

In practice, the black "toe" is not necessarily a problem, but potentially you can clip deep values. If you have a choice, Adobe RGB is easier to work with because it has a perfectly regular gamma 2.2 curve.

The monitor profile is the standard icc profile listed with all the other icc profiles in your system directory. This profile is made by measuring the display's response after the calibration is finished. Its sole job is to describe the monitor's behavior, in detail. Don't confuse the monitor profile with the calibration tables! Those are different things. When you run the calibrator, it does both, one after the other.

R

riccknlAuthor

Inspiring

Hi both, thanks for replying 🙂

@NB, colourmanagement The problem is that my photographs, either NEF, JPG etc are getting lifted in the shadow/black values of the image in Photoshop. The youtube link also shows the slight elevation and 'muddiness' happening in the shadow areas on my iPad and iPhone which aren't color calibrated.

@D Fosse I added screenshots from ACR/PS compared. Also a image exported by ACR and one by PS, marked with PS left-upper corner. I had to bring back the P3 monitor because of the return period.

Adobe Customer Service keeps asking me to start a chat, but they abandon the chat without replying. But last night they sent me an email that it could be a problem with the M2 chips. Only to ask me once again to open up a chat.

D Fosse

Community Expert

What I see in these screenshots is channel clipping.

In example #1, ACR clips the red channel. The other two channels are unaffected.

In the jpeg, #3 shows blue channel clipping. The other two channels are unaffected.

This kind of channel clipping is historically typical of a bad/defective monitor profile - but here's the thing: the conversion into the monitor profile is executed in the GPU nowadays. That means a buggy GPU driver can throw the conversion off, and that's what I think happens here.

In other words, monitor profile <> GPU driver is very much two sides to the same coin now. A marginal profile can throw the GPU off, and a buggy driver can cause the profile to fail. Both need to be in good order.

The lighter shadows is the correct version.

I've doubled checked here and I'm not seeing this on Windows. ACR and Photoshop are absolutely identical in the dark values. So there's nothing inherent in Photoshop.

ACR won't work without the GPU now, but LrC does, so you could try to disable the GPU there and compare again.

R

riccknlAuthor

Inspiring

Ah, so channel clipping is the term, thanks!

Yeh and about the bad/defective profile; how could I try anything extra to solve this? As I tried v2/v4, matrix/lut and three different calibration tools with three different monitors? That also left me to the conclusion it had to do with the GPU driver. Too bad my friends and I saw this happening on three different M2 Macs as well..

But what really throws me of, is that this clipping also happens with the internal Adobe RGB1998 icc profile. While switching profiles, as seen in the YT video, you there is a fraction of a second where Photoshop shows the exact same tonality as in LR/ACR and every other application on my Mac.

I am curious what Adobe Customer Services will reply, as they also acknowledged this could be a problem with the M2 chips.

NB, colourmanagement

Community Expert

Hi

Please describe the issue.

I don't properly see the issue details in that movie demo here, I guess I wouldn't perhaps because it’s a screen capture - this process captures what's sent to the screen not what's shown on it.

My M2 Mac doesn’t have an issue, my black level does change between a custom display profile and, say Adobe RGB, but only in an expected way.

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
Help others by clicking "Correct Answer" if the question is answered.
Found the answer elsewhere? Share it here. "Upvote" is for useful posts.

D Fosse

Community Expert

This would be interesting to see.

Can you post a small original file in Adobe RGB + a "wrong" screenshot + a "right" screenshot from a P3 monitor? Assign the monitor profile to the screenshots and convert it to Adobe RGB. Then they will be directly comparable and should ideally match.

Make the file small enough so that screenshots can be at 100%.

(Edited for a better and more reproducible procedure).

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