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wildphotog
Participating Frequently
May 28, 2024
Answered

Printing from Photoshop, Color Handling, RGB Working Space and the Embedded Color Profile

  • May 28, 2024
  • 2 replies
  • 1930 views

Hello, I recently saw a video on printing comparisons using different applications, including Photoshop, and using different color handling settings. The presenter said that when printing from Photoshop make sure that the Working Space under Color Settings matches the embedded profile of the file that is about to be printed. 

 

I never did this before and perhaps my prints were adversely affected because I sometimes print files from my archive with an embedded Adobe RGB color profile and others with an embedded ProPhoto RGB color profile and I never change the Working Space to match.

 

I should add that when he said the working space and color profiles should match, he printed a reference image and chose Printer Manages Colors. This was a baseline test to determine if the printer was printing properly.

 

Next, he printed using Photoshop Manages Colors, but he did not say one way or the other whether the Working Space should match the file’s embedded color profile. Therefore, it’s unclear whether matching is also required/recommended when Photoshop Manages Colors. 

 

In a nutshell, I'd like to know which situations require the RGB working space to match the embedded color profile. Also, if you've actually done comparisons when the Working Space matched vs. didn't match, I'd be interested how the prints differed.

 

I tried searching for an answer, but most posts I found are talking about assigning and converting profiles, which is not what I’m trying to do.

 

Photoshop 25.6.0, macOS 12.7.5, Epson P800 and 3800

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer D Fosse

You'll find a lot of weird videos on the internet... 😉

 

So to be clear, the embedded color profile does not need to match the working space. In fact, the working space is irrelevant here. The embedded profile will override it. This is how modern color management is intended to work.

 

This whole idea that the working space is important is a relic from older times when color management wasn't widely implemented. There's even a couple of "warnings" that will pop up by default. These warnings should just be disabled in Color Settings. They tell you nothing useful.

 

There has to be a working space, but under normal circumstances you won't be using it. It's just a fallback default.

2 replies

NB, colourmanagement
Community Expert
NB, colourmanagementCommunity Expert
Community Expert
May 30, 2024

@wildphotog I totally agree with @D Fosse "

"You'll find a lot of weird videos on the internet... 😉

So to be clear, the embedded color profile does not need to match the working space. In fact, the working space is irrelevant here. The embedded profile will override it. This is how modern color management is intended to work."

 

I'd be recommending Photoshop Manages Color over using the printer to manage color, just be sure to select an ICC profile that's for your printer/ the loaded ink-set and media. 

Also in  'Print settings', you'll need to set the media type to match that used when the printer ICC profile was made. If you're using as custom media profile you'll need to ask the profile creator that question, it makes quite a difference to print output which media type is selected there.

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
Help others by clicking "Correct Answer" if the question is answered.
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wildphotogAuthor
Participating Frequently
May 31, 2024

Thanks for your recommendation. I agree with your process and have been doing this for over a decade with three Epson 3800s and the P800. What I didn't say in my post (mostly to keep it short), was that I normally print from Photoshop with the option to let Photoshop Manage Colors, select the appropriate ICC profile and I select the appropriate media settings in the printer driver. So my reason for posting was to determine whether or when the Photoshop Working Space mattered and also if it might have been the reason I had a case of an unexplainably bad print. 

 

This bad print occured when I printed a series of eleven reference prints on different papers with my Epson P800 using the method you recommended. All prints with Epson, Canson and MOAB paper were good with one exception. When I printed on Epson Legacy Etching using Epson's standard ICC profile and media type set to Legacy Etching, the print was noticeably faded. I later tried to print the same image again on the same paper, and carefully triple-checked all my settings and made sure I was printing on the correct side of the paper based on how the paper was laid in the plastic bag (printable side up). I figured I must have inadvertently chosen an incorrect setting the first time, but the print came out equally bad as the first one.

 

So I don't know if I have a bad ICC profile or if there is some other explanation. My prints on Legacy Platine, Baryta and Fibre from the same sample pack all look fabulous! It's not critical since I only have Etching paper in the sample pack, but it would be better to figure out the problem without wasting more ink and paper. Any clues what went wrong? Thanks again!

D Fosse
Community Expert
D FosseCommunity Expert
Community Expert
May 31, 2024

strange that. your Canson prints OK but not your Epson media. 

you COULD try "printer manages color" as selecting the media will get an ICC profile in the background (within the print driver).

 

Are you familiar with Epson Print Layout? I wonder if the result is equivalent to using the "printer manages color" option since it bypasses Photoshop Manages Colors??? 

 

maybe test that media on the 3880?

 

I have the older 3800 and unfortunately there is no ICC profile for the Epson Legacy papers. All prints coming out of the 3800 printer looks great, but I experimented on Legacy Platine using media type Ultrasmooth and it looked pretty good. I could try media type Legacy Fibre with the P800 and/or media type Cold Press on the 3800.  

 

"So I don't know if I have a bad ICC profile or if there is some other explanation. My prints on Legacy Platine, Baryta and Fibre from the same sample pack all look fabulous! It's not critical since I only have Etching paper in the sample pack, but it would be better to figure out the problem without wasting more ink and paper. Any clues what went wrong? Thanks again!"

Pleased to help

Maybe try deleting the ICC profile and re-downloading. As it's an Epson profile you'll maybe need to reistall the printer driver to achieve that.

 

If the experiments mentioned above don't work, then that might be the next step. I noticed the current downloaded driver version for the P800 from Epson website is the same version # that I have installed, but the date is newer which doesn't make sense. 

 

That’s one check you can make, be sure the media setting is correct and you're totally sure you're not putting the media into the printer the wrong side up? (easily done with som,e media)

 

Here are screen shots of my settings:

I created and used a preset for the media settings and used it for repeatability:

The next time I will record a video screen capture to document the settings during printing.

 

A reasonable assumption with issues points to user error. I was extra careful to print on the printable side and even put a pencil mark on the backside before the paper was completely removed from the packaging. I suppose I could try printing on the backside of the previous print to eliminate that possibility.

 

I hope this helps

I appreciate your suggestions to help solve this mystery!


neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
Help others by clicking "Correct Answer" if the question is answered.
Found the answer elsewhere? Share it here. "Upvote" is for useful posts.


Why is High Speed checked?

D Fosse
Community Expert
D FosseCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
Community Expert
May 28, 2024

You'll find a lot of weird videos on the internet... 😉

 

So to be clear, the embedded color profile does not need to match the working space. In fact, the working space is irrelevant here. The embedded profile will override it. This is how modern color management is intended to work.

 

This whole idea that the working space is important is a relic from older times when color management wasn't widely implemented. There's even a couple of "warnings" that will pop up by default. These warnings should just be disabled in Color Settings. They tell you nothing useful.

 

There has to be a working space, but under normal circumstances you won't be using it. It's just a fallback default.

    W
    wildphotogAuthor
    Participating Frequently
    May 28, 2024

    That's probably why I never heard of it before, but I'm forever on a learning curve and try not to assume too much. I'm relieved to learn that I have not been inadvertently messing up my prints, at least with respect to this topic.

     

    Thanks for your reply!

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