Printing too dark in CS4

[_doug_plummer_]

I have CS4 on Tiger 10.4.11 on a completely color managed system, Epson 4800 printer. Printing seems to be broken in the new version. Prints are very dark. I know to select "Photoshop Manages Color" in Color Handling, and "No Color Management" in the printer color management dropdown. The procedure works fine in CS3.

That something is up is suggested by this wrinkle. In this case I am printing using advanced b/w. If under color handling I choose "Printer Manages Color" and go into the b/w advanced setup, it's still too dark. If instead I choose "No color management", then make my choices in advanced b/w, it works fine.

One would first think that it's a double color management problem, but I'm turning it off anywhere I can see it in CS4, and still having problems. Is there a new secret handshake I haven't puzzled out yet?

[_g_ballard_]

>> (Epson Advanced B&W driver) make assumptions about the document working space (specifically, the gamma

So, Eric, you are saying we need to Convert to a space (or gamma) in Photoshop before Command+P -- because the Epson Adv B&W driver will assume a color space/gamma -- what would that assumption be based on (gamma of our Mac default MonitorRGB)? Assuming I am not talking about feeding the Epson grayscale.

Does this CS4-Apple-Epson issue have anything to do with some users reporting dark prints in Photoshop Manage Color - No Color Adjustment Epson workflow? -- For example, someone using 1.8 gamma Monitor RGB...

[Was DYP]

>Sure. Here are a few Epson models that I know of: R1900, R2400, R2880, 3800, 4800, 4880, 7800, 7880, 7900, 9800, 9880, 9900, 11880. Just as long as you're printing via the RGB color driver. (I believe the HP Z-series printers work as well but have not personally verified this.)

Eric, thank you very much for posting that. Now people will at least know what can be eliminated in their search to correct what color problem they may be encountering.

[Chris Cox]

HP Z2100 and Z3100 were well tested.

(oh, they're so cute, can I take one home?)

[MadManChan2000]

Sure, Chris, if you can fit it into your backpack.

;-)

[MadManChan2000]

> So, Eric, you are saying we need to Convert to a space (or gamma) in
> Photoshop before Command+P -- because the Epson Adv B&W driver will
> assume a color space/gamma -- what would that assumption be based on
> (gamma of our Mac default MonitorRGB)? Assuming I am not talking
> about feeding the Epson grayscale.

Yes.

The ABW driver wants to be fed gamma 2.2-encoded image data.

This is why my standard recommendation for printing to the ABW driver __ONLY__ is to use:

Color Handling = Photoshop Manages Colors
Printer Profile = Adobe RGB
Rendering Intent = Relative Colorimetric
Black Point Compensation = Enabled

Why does this work? Because no matter what your image working space is (e.g., sRGB, Adobe RGB, ProPhoto RGB, Apple RGB, ColorMatch RGB, etc.), doing this will cause your image data to be encoded in gamma 2.2 before the data gets passed off to the driver. (Adobe RGB has a gamma encoding of 2.2.)

The same workflow will work in Lightroom, too. You just need to check the "Display Profiles" checkbox in Lightroom to access Adobe RGB when selecting a printer profile.

If you are in grayscale mode instead of RGB mode, choose "Gray Gamma 2.2" instead of "Adobe RGB" for the printer profile.

However, the catch is that -- as noted in this thread -- there is currently a glitch, which we (Adobe + Apple + Epson) are investigating. One of the symptoms of that glitch is that the above suggested workflow does not work on Leopard.

> Does this CS4-Apple-Epson issue have anything to do with some users
> reporting dark prints in Photoshop Manage Color - No Color
> Adjustment Epson workflow? -- For example, someone using 1.8 gamma
> Monitor RGB...

Unlikely.

[Guest]

I started dealing with this in CS3, I took the time to figure out that CS3 wanted me to lay down too much ink. All of this fuc_kedupedness started with CS3 and you are just now noticing it?

[Ramón G Castañeda]

There was printing in Photoshop BP and then there's printing in Photoshop AP.

BP = before Polaschek; AP = after Polaschek arrived on the scene. Coincidence?

[Lundberg02]

I love it when people who are supposed to know what they're doing go around and around.
Now the whole damn country and most of the rest of the world is doing it.
Why doesn't some one fix ColorSync while they're at it?

[Was DYP]

Buko

Don't confuse IDCS3 with PSCS3. Those are entirely two separate problems.

And speaking of ID and IL. Why can I have all the printer controls available to me in ID and IL and can not have all the printer controls available to me in PS and LR. I had all the printer controls available to me in LR1.4.1. So why change it in LR2.1?

Talk about going around and around.

But I will say it's not just Adobe. This same issue has now popped up in Canon's DPP 3.51 and with Canon own printer drivers.

When ever 10.5.6 is released lets hope there is some fixes for all of this.

[Was DYP]

Just to let you know the new Canon iPF series 1.91 drivers on the Japanese site fixes the PSCS4 and LR2.1 double profiling problems with the iPF9000.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcweb.canon.jp%2Fdrv-upd%2Fbj4b%2Fbj4b-driver.html&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

With CM by PS the Color Matching selection in the driver setup are still grayed out but in Main/Color/Set/ No Correction in now the choice. It used to default to ColorSync which resulted in double profiling when printing from PSCS4. The behavior is now back to the way it was in PSCS3. Plugin still works fine with the 1.91 drivers installed.

I can also select Fast Graphic Process but I still cannot select monochrome.

All I did was install the iPF81009100-Drv-MacX5-191. I did not add any printers. Just installing this driver fixed this problem.

I suspect for those with the iPF5000 installing the 1.90 driver would fix this as well.

Doyle

[_Harley_Goldman_]

Under the advanced B&W setup, there are choices for darkness settings. The default is darker. If you have not already, reset it to normal. I am not sure what names they use, since I am at work and do not have access to the printer. But you will see what I mean.

[_Peter_Figen_]

Yes, but the Darker setting really is the "normal" setting. When you send a gamma 2.2 file through ABW, that Darker setting should give you a print that very closely matches your calibrated screen.

[_Ray1292_]

To stop this Mac OS/Printer nonsense just go online and get the latest updates for a PC/XP.

I prep on the Mac, print on the eMachine PC/XP. No sweat. BTW: I still print documents on the Mac but not the money stuff.

[_Tom_H_Mikkelsen_]

Greetings to All:

This is to all Epson R1800 users that have had trouble printing with Intel Mac's in CS4 or LR2. Despite everyone's suggestions in this forum, I couldn't get anything to work. The prints were too dark and adjusting the image to lighten it before printing defeated the purpose of working in a color managed workflow. I found a thread on these Adobe Forums (now lost) that suggested downloading the R1800 driver from the Epson European site - Epson UK. The Driver is 6.23 and is listed as 322037eu dmg. You will find it if you look on the right side menu, select your printer model, operating system etc and download. It is a 66mb file so it takes a while. I am not advocating this but it worked for me. You have to remove the old driver (6.12) then install the new driver. There might be some other adjustments depending or your particular setup. For example, the paper names are different and the menus aren't the same.

By the way, if you look at this site it is clear that the Europeans clearly anticipated the advent of Leopard and began the process of developing drivers to suit. No pun intended but why do we live in the dark ages?

Happy New year to all,

Tom Mikkelsen

[LarryGRC]

BINGO - Tom Thank you. I just printed the first CS4 matching print without a bunch of girations on my Epson R1800.

[_Tom_H_Mikkelsen_]

Larry:

No Problem. I'm glad that this worked for you.

THM

[_Wnderlnd_]

OMG...I have spent all day printing the same image small test papers varying one option at a time. My images either come out too dark or too light...not at all what is on my calibrated screen.

I am printing on an Epson R1800 from CS4 on a Mac Pro (intel-based) running leopard. I am so frustrated. I figured a work-around in CS3, but it jsut isn't the same, or even close in CS4, and forget about turning off the printer color managment...that is just terrible.

Tom, I am totally going to do this tonight. I'll run a back-up first, just in case. Then try it. THANKS for the idea and all the numbers!

[LarryGRC]

Wnderlnd - I'm having Magenta problems today. I didn't change anything overnight. I'm also frustrated with my R1800. There is a magenta cast on my prints!!! I used hue/saturation to put a plus 8 to get an acceptable print. I've checked everything! And tried the old driver and tried CS3. No more time today.

[_SoleSole_]

I have the exact same problem. When printing on my Epson 3800 from CS4 all prints too dark. If I switch back to CS3 all prints as it is supposed to. When I contacted Adobe, I was told that the engineers will get back to me on the issue and that there does not seem to be any solution available at the moment. So just forget CS4 and use CS3.

CAN ADOBE FOR ONCE GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER?

[Guest]

This is an Epson issue.

Go to the Epson UK (NOT Epson USA) and download the latest Printer driver for your Printer.

Also, check to see if Epson have created "Premium ICC" Profiles for your printer for the papers that you use.

I am using Epson's "Premium ICC" Profiles on a R1900 with CS4 and the prints are outstanding and entirely faithful to the Soft Preview.

However, I am using OSX 10.4.11 and this could also have a bearing on it.

[_SoleSole_]

I went to the Epson UK site, and there is no Epson 3800 printer. Is that printer called something else in the UK?

Also, I don't use Epson papers. So that would mean that because CS4 has changed their color algorithms, I have to change all my paper profiles?

The only thing I changed here is CS3 to CS4. I did not make changes to anything Epson....

[Ramón G Castañeda]

>I don't use Epson papers.

Then you need specific profiles for those papers in conjunction with your printer. All profiles have to be specific to one combination of printer/ink/paper. But I gather you know that already

>went to the Epson UK site, and there is no Epson 3800 printer. Is that printer called something else in the UK?

Very likely, but then the profile for the UK model won't work with your printer. I use the Epson 2200, which is the 2100 in the UK and the rest of Europe. The profile for the 2100 and my Epson 2200 do not recognize each other.

I sould add: CS4 running under 10.4.11 is generating outstanding, right-on-target prints on my Epson 2200.

[Guest]

If you don't use Epson Papers (or have custom profiles for the papers that you do use) you are sailing in troubled waters.

Experiment with some of the Paper profiles that you do have and see if one of them gives better results with your paper.

Are you sure that you have set "Photoshop Manages Colors" and that your Profile is the same in both the first Print window and in the Print Settings in the second window; and that Color Management (in the second window) shows: "Off (No Color Adjustment)".

[_SoleSole_]

Yes I checked the settings a dozen times. All is set the way I had it in CS3, the same as you describe. I also called the company who does my paper profiles, and they don't think the profiles have to change from CS3 to CS4. Epson said not to waste time with this and wait for a patch.

[Ramón G Castañeda]

>and they don't think the profiles have to change from CS3 to CS4.

Neither do I. But you have something else at work. Sorry if I missed it, but are you running Leopard? A Mac-Intel box?

I'm only asking that to ascertain whether I should bow out of the thread.