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Question

PS cc and 30 bit

Forum|Forum|12 years ago
September 14, 2013
9 replies
28431 views

When will PS CC have 30 bit capability? I know PS CS6 does have it so it is puzzling why PS CC does not.

This topic has been closed for replies.

Participating Frequently

It's now February of 2018 and the 10bit issue with PS is still not resolved... when will Adobe wake up and fix the issue.. Capture One displays fine on my system..

D Fosse

Community Expert

19KStudio wrote
when will Adobe wake up and fix the issue

It does work, I have 30 bit display with Photoshop CC 2018, Windows 10, NVidia Quadro K420 and Eizo CG/CX.

However, you need to be at 66.67% zoom and up.

19KStudio

Participating Frequently

Not for me... I have 30 bit display with Photoshop CC 2018, Windows 10, Nvidia Quadro K4000 and BenQ 271W. Does not work with PS, however displays correctly with Lightroom Classic and Capture One. Magnification makes no difference on my setup. PS chat support went as far as to say that PS did not support it. We all know that's incorrect. Perhaps you need to do more than tick the 30bit box to make PS work?

Yahor Shumski

Inspiring

It seems Adobe finally solved 10-bit related problems with the latest release of Photoshop (2015.1). Both for Mac and PC

M

malantheon

Participant

Yes, I can confirm that on my system (Win10, Quadro 620, NEC PA272W) 10-bit works in Photoshop, also with Adobe ACE conversion option selected. However, the support does not seem to be extended from the CS6 version - you still get banding when selecting or cropping the image and also in filter previews - but the latest seems quite forgivable for me.

As for trshaner's challenge, I think it would be quite interesting to try, so for the next few days I guess I should be shooting for the skies;-)

jbm007

Community Expert

Check image at 66% or less

M

Marco Ristuccia

Participant

Hi all,

I just discovered another method that lets me work with 30 bits and the Adobe ACE engine on PS CC 2015.

By enabling "proof colors" (menu "View") and choosing a printer proofing profile the gradient step becomes smooth. This seems to happen only with printer profiles, I tried other profiles like "Adobe RGB" and "Wide Gamut" but it doesn't work. Moreover, the limit of 63% zoom factor (in my PC is 63.8% to be precise) is present with this setup, under this value the steps turn visible.

Anyway this seems a good compromise approach to me, and avoids the color accuracy drawbacks of using the "Microsoft ICM" engine. We could either work with "proof colors" always activated or proof our prints on 30 bits just before printing or bringing the image files to a LAB.

Win7 XP x64 SP1, nVidia Quadro K2000, PS CC 2015, Epson R2880 printer profiles.

Regards.

Todd Shaner

Legend

Marco Ristuccia wrote:

Anyway this seems a good compromise approach to me, and avoids the color accuracy drawbacks of using the "Microsoft ICM" engine. We could either work with "proof colors" always activated or proof our prints on 30 bits just before printing or bringing the image files to a LAB.

That brings up a good point. Unless the target printer supports 16 bit/color and the printer driver is properly setup to use 16 bit/color data then 30 bit mode should NOT be used to proof the image.

What's interesting is that Mac OS X has supported 16 bit/color printer path for years, but still no 30 bit/color display support. So you need to proof the image on a Windows system with 30 bit mode support. From what I can tell Epson does not offer Windows printer drivers with 16 data support (XPS), only Canon does. If using a Windows system you can proof in 30 bit mode on the display, but can't print 16 bit data to an Epson printer.

It all seems like an exercise in futility to me....at least at this point. I also have been unable to find any 16 bit color print examples where the user states it's "significantly" better than the 8 bit print.

Oleg Novikov Photography » Epson Stylus Pro 4880 printer user experience report

Hype or Hero Take 2: 16 Bit Printers - Steve's Digicams

16 bit print output may help to preventing banding in B&W prints, but not color prints:

16bit vs 8bit printing on 9900

If you do a lot of fine-art B&W printing it may be worth the effort to use a system that supports 16 bit printer data.....and 30 bit color.

M

Marco Ristuccia

Participant

You are right trshaner.

I run a Mac OS X Yosemite on the same system (dual boot) so I can proof in Windows and print on Mac. I don't print so frequently so switching OS from time to time is not that problem for me. But I agree with you on the weirdness of the whole thing, and on the fact that probably it doesn't worth the effort.

Moreover, if we print through a LAB service we should have their printing profile and know whether their driver will print with 8 or 16 bits data output.

M

Marco Ristuccia

Participant

Don't know what happens with Windows 8.X, but I don't like this OS so will never install it in any case.

I'll stick with my Win7 64bit XP1 and PS CC 2015 set with the "Microsoft ICM" color engine. This way I can work with 30 bit color, especially for B&W photography. Grayscale images have far less color shades than the color ones.

Moreover, I also run a Mac OS X 10.10 Yosemite on the same PC and there is no way to get 30 bit per color.

M

Marco Ristuccia

Participant

Hi guys,

After a lot of reading and testing I have found a solution for the 30 bit problem of PS CC 2015. Here it is:
- open the PS CC color settings (Edit->Color Settings)

- change the color engine (item "Engine") from "Adobe (ACE)" to "Microsoft ICM".

There it is, on my PC with a nVidia Quadro K2000 it worked like a charm. At every zoom factor the grey gradient is finally smooth!!!

Probably it is not a final solution, don't know how PS CC behaves by using the SO color engine instead of its native one, it could have other drawbacks, but at least we have a fast way to "proof" the image with 30 bit color.

Let me know if this works for you too.

Todd Shaner

Legend

Marco, thank you for the feedback. Looks like a trade-off of color accuracy for 30 bit color:

ICM vs ACE | The Last Word

I've switched back to using a DL-DVI cable because my NEC PA272W sometimes will not wake from sleep mode when connected via a DisplayPort cable. Believe me I've tried everything and wasted way too much time including discussions with NEC Tech Support concerning both issues (30 bit color, DisplayPort Wake). I've yet to see an actual camera image in PS that shows banding so not sure I'm missing anything at this point with only 24 bit color.

jbm007

Community Expert

Here is a dirty little secret.

Windows 8, Win 8.1, and Windows 10 do not and all MAC OSes do not; I repeat do not support 30 bit output.

Windows 7 is the only OS that did and Aero needed to be disabled to do so. I believe Linux also supports 30 bit color output.

All the marketing hype from the Video card mfg and TV mfg is great; the problem is there is no way to get 30 bit output with the current OS es.

Sorry to burst everybody's bubble.

Sad but true. You still using windows 7 you are still in luck.

Jim

Klaus AUT

Participating Frequently

Hi there,

any news on this topic?

Who of you already tried the GPU support for Lightroom CC / 6? Does it work for you?

For me (and many others) not, just like the 30 bit in PS. So I wonder if there might be a link between these two issues - some wrong usage/interpretation of OpenGL by Adobe? Because in LR the OpenGL fails, which should be the case only for old cards not supporting OpenGL 3.3. My card however supports OpenGL 4.4, and OpenGL tests that I made with a test program finished all at 100% ok.

So, maybe a problem of OpenGL support is a common issue here? (while for me the lack of GPU support in LR is honestly a bigger problem, than 30 bit in PS)...

Todd Shaner

Legend

Please see this post by Adobe Engineer Eric Chan:

https://forums.adobe.com/message/7472605#7472605

The suggestions at this post are primarily for AMD graphics cards with numerous suggestion. Driver update or using an older version has helped AMD card users. I'm using an Nvidia Quadro 600 GPU and it is detected and turned on in LR CC 2015. Unfortunately it seems to make things slower...not faster. See my post in the same thread:

Re: OpenGL Failure in Lightroom CC

Concerning 30 bit color support: I still have the same issue with PS CS6 where it reverts to 24 bit color when Zoom view is <64% (i.e. 50%, 25%, etc.), but does work at 64% and higher. With PS CC 2014 I can NOT get 30 bit color to work at all on my Windows 7 64 bit SP1 system.

Klaus AUT

Participating Frequently

Thanks for your input, trshaner! I was already aware of this latest advice as interim solution from another, very similar thread. However this is not valid for me, as FirePro cards use different drivers than the "mass market" Radeon cards. (And I tried with older driver with no success).

Also I already read that some things might be even slower in LR with GPU support switched on. Would still be interesting to check it on my system. Just like you I have no serious performance issues right now, beside some photos with a lot of stamp cloning, gradients etc. But as soon as LR will have to deal with 5DS R files in the future, situation might change...

However, I did not want to hijack this thread for LR topics now! Just saw a potential common reason for the issues.

P

paul goodlight

Participant

Just started trial of PS CC 2014.2.1 to try this out.

I have AMD FirePro W7000 (PS supported 30bit color GPU), displayport-connected to NEC pa271w (10bit capable display). My AMD graphics driver has 10bit color enabled, and in PS under preferences I have 30bit color enabled. Windows 8 x64 has the aero desktop disabled.

The ramp.psd file I obtained shows banding, so even the very latest version of PS does not display 30bit color properly on the FirePro w7000. I'm staggered that this issue has not been resolved since its introduction with the CC version of PS (as the ramp.psd file displayed perfectly smoothly when I loaded it in PS CS6).

I've kind of given up hope this will ever been resolved. I just come back here occasionally with the glimmer that there may have been some progress with this issue. Sadly none to date.

Chris Cox

Legend

It works on the Photoshop side of things. But it does require a driver and display that are 10 bit/channel capable.

P

paul goodlight

Participant

Chris,

Thanks for the response. As I mentioned in my post, my driver has 30bit color enabled, my w7000 GPU is connected to my 10bit compatible display using display port (required for 10bit color) and everything is enabled as it should be). As also mentioned, it worked fine in CS6 (on this same setup) - just not in CC now.

I even updated my ATI GPU driver to the very latest revision last night, but again no improvement. I even thought that the issue may be due to me having my second (non 10bit compliant) display connected to the w7000 (using DVI) at the same time as my 10bit NEC monitor, so disconnected it, rebooted, but still no joy with 10bit in PS. Then I remembered that in CS6 10bit worked fine with these same two displays connected in the same way.

So, for me I don't have a solution unfortunately. Thanks anyway.

T

Tempest790

Participant

Yes, I can also state Photoshop CC (64 bit version) 30 bit color mode does not work with my Quadro K2000 card. No issues with CS6 only CC. Just downloaded the latest nVidia drivers today (2-4-14) and still no luck. Not even force 30 bit color mode works in the driver option. 30 bit color is turned on in Photoshop CC. Tested using the ramp.psd sample file.

They definitely need to issue a patch for this.

Chris Cox

Legend

Photoshop CC has it as well. I'm not sure why you think it doesn't.

But of course, it does require an OS, video card, and display that are capable of handing 10 bit/channel framebuffers. (MacOS still can't)

E

Ed_EngbergAuthor

Participating Frequently

I have all three (ASUS PA279Q monitor, AMD FirePro W5000 video card and Win 7 Ultimate 64 OS) and 30 bit does work with CS6 on my computer system. There is a 10 per bit per channel test ramp psd file (can be found on the internet) that can be opened in PS CS6 and PS CC and I have both. In PS CS6 the ramp is smooth. In PS CC the steps can be seen in the ramp. Many photographers are aware that PS CC does not work with 30 bit files. So my question is when will Adobe enable 30 bit processing? There are many of us asking this question.

Added:

It seems that PS CC can work in higher than 8 bit per channel but cannot open a psd file that has higher than 8 bits per channel and display higher than 8 bits per channel for that file.

An experiment; in PS CS6 create a 32 bit mode file and create a linear ramp from black to white. Adjust the exposure to show mostly black to mid gray. The ramp will be smooth viewed on my 30 bit monitor. If I move the PS window to either of the other two 24 bit monitors the steps in the ramp can be seen. (I should explain I have a 3 monitor system with the desktop spread across all three.)

Save the file as a psd and open in PS CC. It will be in 32 bit mode but the ramp will have the steps visible on the 30 bit monitor and 24 bit monitors. The comparison is that the same file viewed using PS CS6 has the ramp smooth on the 30 bit monitor and stepped on the 24 bit monitors. This says to me PS CC cannot display properly any opened file that contails more than 8 bits per channel (8 bit mode).

P

PJA_Media

Participating Frequently

Photoshop CC can, and does for other users.

So there is something about your setup that is preventing the driver from using 10 bit/channel framebuffers in Photoshop CC. You might want to contact AMD and work with them to diagnose your setup to see why it is not working on your system.

There is definitely an issue with FirePro cards and PS CC on Windows 7 x64. I tested 10bit color when it was first introduced in CS5 a couple of years ago, when I got my first 10bit capable system - in fact I gave up trying to get it working on a nVidia Quadro card at the time and moved to a FirePro v4800 - hooked in via displayport cable to my NEC PA271 display, I was able to see the ramp.psd file (from ATI) displayed perfectly smoothly for the first time. I tested CS6 with this setup also and from what I recall, it worked fine there also. Then I tried PS CC on a trial and to my surprise, despite everything being enabled in PS CC (and with no changes to my graphics driver settings - so 10bit color still enabled), I could not get 10bit colour to work at all on PS CC. I recently upgraded my system - actually built a brand new 4th Gen i7 workstation with a FirePro w7000 GPU - and tested PS CC again after spotting this thread - and again, even though tPS suggests 10bit is supported - it just doesn't work on the FirePro w7000, despite it all being enabled, and the aero theme being switched off etc in Win7. I read on another thread that someone had received an e-mail from ATI suppoirt to say that they were working with Adobe to try to resolve this issue. Chris, can you please confirm if this is the case from your understanding?

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