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Struggling understanding how to import image with out it degrading(blocky)

Explorer ,
Dec 27, 2023 Dec 27, 2023

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Hello

I am trying to learn  and hope someone can help explain why  I can create and size an image in PS 2023 and  no matter how I try to bring it over, the image looks blocky. I am still new at this so thank you for your kindness. You can let me know  what info you need from me so you can help me . I apologize in advance for not knowing what information  provides a quick solution.

 

THe main image is 2560x2352  72 dpi

I desire an image to be reflected in an explorer's binoculars but it needs to be sharper , less "natural" then how it owuld look if really reflected.  So I created an image  to my liking that is 3540x3453  72 dpi   But the image is looking blocky when I put it in the main document.

 

The first time I tried created a smart object and duplicating it over.  

Initally I tried making it a smart object and  duplicating  it over to the main file and resizing it.  Immediately I noticed the quality was not the same,.

I have tried many ways but each time when the image gets down to correct size, it looks fine in the file  I created it in even at 300% zoom but when brought over  it is very blocky looking.

I tried 

I have tried dupllicating the layer over, tried smart object. Tried copy and paste,  . Tried saving it as Jpg and place emedded
I have tried  unchecking resample when resizing.  

According to the  rulers the image I am trying to put in the binoculars is  about 2.5" square 

I am just not sure  why the resized image looks usable in the file where it is created but  importing it  does not look the same.

I look forward to learning what I am am not understanding. Thanks

 

 

 

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Community Expert ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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Can you show us a sample?


Make sure that the image you are placing and the parent document have the same resolution (pixels per inch) before placing the image. Alternatively, you can open the image in a separate tab, copy and paste it into the other document, and then convert it to a smart object and upscale it. You can also upscale the image first and then copy and paste it into the desired document.


Upscaling 100% should not be a huge problem or degrade the image quality significantly. Make sure that you are viewing the composition or the resulting image at 100% scaling. Press Ctrl + 1 for 100% scaling inside Photoshop.

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Explorer ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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Can you or someone else tell me how to check the resolution of the documents?  Where is that information in a way I can screenshot it? 

 I'm actually downscaling the size so didn't think  it It would get blocky when the same size image on its own doesn't unless what I'm seeing is not what I think it is. 

 

Is a screen shot going to show you the detail that I'm seeing. I thought a screenshot wasn't the same resolution /quality?

I'm going from a large size that I'm scaling down to become an element in a photo. So I want a smaller then original image.

 

Look, I've been struggling with all this formatting stuff for quite some time now. For example, I thought I could work with grouped smart layers and be able to do something as simple as putting, fill in a selection but it it seemed that I wasn't allowed to do that until I flattened everything which kind of defeated the purpose of of non-destructive because I couldn't go back. That's for another story. So basically I'm working with files that I isolated the background and will still have to put into a finished product which might require more adjusting. I was trying to make a composite image to move over to a template. 

But as far as I know it's all set as native default. But if I need to scale the image and I'm having trouble with so that it works with the file. Fine. I just need to learn how I can get that information. Maybe I'm looking at the original image information when I provided it, so I guess If you can, 101 instruct me on how I can see what the document container is actually and we can start there.

Again, thank you for my patience with me. I'm trying to understand this because it seems that by looking at other help topics that a lot of people have trouble understanding resolution and resampling and transforming. I thought by keeping it as a smart object that was supposed to eliminate that sort of thing. And then I still don't understand why when I've resized the item, exported it as a JPEG, and bring it in as a place embedded object. Object. It's not the same look. I can only surmise that it's because my file I'm putting it into is set to a certain size and is technically huge in dimensions compared to the actual item I'm importing.

When I left Resample unchecked ,when I sized it

But then copied it over, via cutting paste or, duplicated the layer over, , or place embedded, Even though it should have been the 2.5 in this image covered the entire image I was placing it in. So that didn't work either. When I didn't constrain it to 72 PPI but set the physical dimensions. It actually  covered the image that I was moving into even though the rulers are definitely showing in the file that it's the right size until it gets to the other main document. It's sharp image quality. But if I reduce it, it goes back to the same blocky look.

This is such a minor thing and I'm struggling with it for some time now. That is depending on the size that this actually gets printed at, It is a lot of struggle for something that they might not even notice at first. Thanks again for being patient and helping me with what I need to do as far as workflow.

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Community Expert ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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@Mark245245051gxu ,

 

Try to show us some screenshots and your settings through screenshots if possible. It will immensely help us understand your issue with your previous descriptions. You can zoom in to your image and screen shot to show us the original and the altered image with the blockiness you describe.

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Explorer ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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Can you tell me how or where the

settings are that you want to see? Thank you

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Community Expert ,
Dec 29, 2023 Dec 29, 2023

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To see the pixel per inch (PPI) information of an image, you can use Explorer, Bridge, or open it in Photoshop and go to Image > Image Size. PPI can sometimes affect how your image looks when you import it into another document. Photoshop will automatically adjust the PPI of your image to match the document's PPI, which may make your image bigger or smaller than you want. For example, if you have a small image with 72 PPI and you place it in a document with 300 PPI, it will be enlarged four times without telling you. If you try to make it bigger again, it may look bad because it has fewer pixels. For now, you can ignore this because your image seems big enough. But remember this for later when you work on other projects, because it can help you avoid problems.

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Community Expert ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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Could you please post screenshots taken at View > 100% with the pertinent Panels (Toolbar, Layers, Options Bar, …) visible? 

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Explorer ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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OK, forgive me if this is not what you need to help me.  

I guess let's start with these.  Thes are the two images I am working on I want the lion in the lens which will have some affects applied.  I am a balloon artist so these are balloon binoculars and the promo is for a new show that has to start advertising very soon.  

I guess the first  question is what the work flow would be to  get the lion into the explorer file at the size that fits the lens and does not get blocky. I am working on attempting to screen shot what I am seeing but this is before the various ways I ahve tried introducting the lion into the other shot. Is this what you are looking for? Thanks

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Explorer ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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These two have the image info screen.  

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Community Expert ,
Dec 29, 2023 Dec 29, 2023

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quote

OK, forgive me if this is not what you need to help me.  

I guess let's start with these.  Thes are the two images I am working on I want the lion in the lens which will have some affects applied.  I am a balloon artist so these are balloon binoculars and the promo is for a new show that has to start advertising very soon.  

I guess the first  question is what the work flow would be to  get the lion into the explorer file at the size that fits the lens and does not get blocky. I am working on attempting to screen shot what I am seeing but this is before the various ways I ahve tried introducting the lion into the other shot. Is this what you are looking for? Thanks


By @Mark245245051gxu

None of the screenshots seems to display undue pixelation. 

Could you please post a 100%-screenshot that shows the problem? 

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Explorer ,
Dec 29, 2023 Dec 29, 2023

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Right, I was waiting to show what I was seeing because I wasn't quite sure that a screenshot was going to capture it. It's harder to notice at 100% on a screenshot but when printed it's going to look as I see it when I go into 200 or 300%. And right now I just lost power and they estimate not for a few hours.

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Community Expert ,
Dec 29, 2023 Dec 29, 2023

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If you actually print the images at less than 300ppi (for magazine ads, flyers, …) or 72ppi (for posters, …) effective resolution then please consider the issue of viewing distance – you may be able to discern the image pixels if you view the print up close, but how are people actually going to view the product? 

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Explorer ,
Dec 29, 2023 Dec 29, 2023

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As a reminder, and maybe it got lost in all the texts, these images are for
advertising a balloon show in multiple media this is just creating the
first step for a smaller poster that will be printed. I didn't create the
template I was trying to save time And that's what it was created in. But
the images created are going to be used in multiple different ways like
printing on a shirt and thus was going to reduce things as needed. Again it
gets confusing when someone says to consider the print quality as far as
the PPI of the actual document size and other people saying that PPI
doesn't matter and to forget about it.

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Community Expert ,
Dec 29, 2023 Dec 29, 2023

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quote
Again itgets confusing when someone says to consider the print quality as far asthe PPI of the actual document size and other people saying that PPIdoesn't matter and to forget about it.

I was not talking about the resolution of an image itself, but the effective resolution in a specific use-case

Whether the image itself has 1ppi or 10000ppi does not matter, what matters is whether enough pixels (per inch) are available for a specific output-device/method at the chosen mangification. 

So I don’t think there was a contradiction. 

 

Please post a 100%-screenshot including the pertinent Panels that actually illustrates the problem or better yet provide the layered file itself. 

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LEGEND ,
Dec 29, 2023 Dec 29, 2023

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All you are doing is going in circles and we STILL don't have a way to actually see the problem. Post screenshots at 100% and maybe upload the files you have so someone can see what you are seeing. As of right now, I suspect its you doing something wrong but we have no way to verify your workflow.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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1. You cannot use inches reliably. EVERYTHING in Photoshop is pixels. Measure that way.

2. Your balloon animal image is WAY too big. Yes it will look blocky when resized.

3. That's not how binoculars work, you generally can't see a reflection in the lenses.

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Explorer ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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Thank you Lumigraphics. 

1. I  could not change to pixels without ressampling box  selected. but it seems whether I set it to be pixels I see the the same blockiness that I was ot seeing when I changed it selecting inches.  

 

2. Yes  it is larger that is the WORKING file from the orginal, a background added and blurred than cropped.   It does NOT look blocky when resized in that image. It is only when I MOVE into the other file.  So what is the work flow to get it over to that file to fit what PS needs to make the image as clear as possible? I mean if I can zoom in on the explorer 400% and not have the same blockiness, what do I need to do to make  a downsample in size but retain clarity?

 

3. Thank you but  this is not  important and the image is not finished.  Once  lion is clear then I will add some distortion(sphere)  and then a lens flare but only minor as I want them to SEE the image as this is a promo for the show.  (artistic license) Please do not let what is "natural" inhibit from helping me get the image over and clear. 🙂

 

So what is the work flow. I ahe tried reducing  to inches because I figured it was the size that works based on the rulers.  So this way I would not have to resize.

 

I have tried reducing using  the resample box checked and unchecked

I have tried  saving  with 72 dpi and 300 dpi as this will be a 300 dpi flyer/poster as well as email blast.

I have tried putting the resized image in a smart object and without before duplicating the layer over.

I have tried copy , past transform I have tried  duplicating a resized layer over that looks usable in the original file but not the explorer.  

So I assume it is about matching  but since the images are never going to be the same SIZE  as this is just an element of a larger composite, I am not clear how  giving pixel dimensions  will help nor do I know how to find out what pixel size I need it to be. But as I said, right now both files have pixel sizes grayed out. Do the files have to be flattened? If so doesn't that defeat the purprose of non distructive, go back to it later if need be set up?  

 

I guess at this point how would the work flow be to match up the lion image so it can work with the explorer or vise versa.

Thanks

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Explorer ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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To complicate things further, after the image is created with combined lion and explorer I was going to drop it into the template I purchased which is 300ppi and CYMK.  I tested my explorer image and because it is 72 ppi is smaller  but when I cntrl T and transform it looks decent.   But should I be  resampling my 72ppi explorer to 300 ppi?  Is it better to try to do the lens idea in the final template rather than my working file? 

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LEGEND ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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FORGET THE PPI SETTING. You are NOT working in inches. ONLY go by pixels, PPI is irrelevant at this stage. Ignore it.

Second, your balloon image is too large. You are making it much smaller which will reduce the quality. That simple.

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Explorer ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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Yes it is large it is the starting file. How else can one take a photo as
they are all large.

I am not clear why you say to ignore PPI when others say inches is too hard
to work in.

My question is what is the work flow at this point? Why cant a larger
image be made smaller?

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Community Expert ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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A digital image consists of pixels. It doesn't have a size. Pixels are just data points, so many pixels wide by so many pixels high.

 

If you're going to work with Photoshop, you need to get accustomed to working, thinking and dreaming in pixels. The pixel the atom, the basic building block.

 

To define a physical size for the image, there exists a simple formula for that purpose: pixels per inch. You can see how that defines a physical length for a certain number of pixels. That's the familiar ppi number.

 

The crucial thing to understand here, before you can get any further, is that the ppi number is not inherent in the data. It is not part of the image! The ppi number is assigned arbitrarily afterwards, whenever it's needed to define a physical size. When you work on the image in Photoshop, it is not necessary to define a physical size. So the ppi number is entirely irrelevant. It's just pixels.

 

Yes, you can scale an image in Photoshop. This is known as resampling. Resampling is a one way process, you can't go back. So you want to avoid that if possible (except of course when you have an original to go back to). Resampling will either throw away or invent data, and quality will always suffer one way or another. Downsampling will not degrade the final result as such, but you have less data than you started with. Upsampling needs to invent pixels, and will degrade the final result.

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Explorer ,
Dec 28, 2023 Dec 28, 2023

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but why is it blocky looking smaller but fine larger if It is magically
creating pixels that aren't there. Why can't it take them away in the same
manner? For example, I included the size of the template that I'll be
moving both into. For an experiment. I just dropped it in even though the
physical size in pixels was measuring that it was larger. Other than the
fact that the template is 300 PPI and the photograph is 72 PPI. So when
dropped in it was smaller than I wanted but I stretched using controls T
And it's hard for me to say I lost anything. But when I downsize to the
size needed It turns blocky.

Several people have told me that the lion photo is quote too large. So as
everything you've said is well and good. I must not be understanding what
you're saying because I don't see an explanation of what to do from that
lesson.

What is the workflow process that I must do to be able to take the image
that I created and make it smaller without it going blocky?

Thank you.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 29, 2023 Dec 29, 2023

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"Other than the
fact that the template is 300 PPI and the photograph is 72 PPI."

QUIT WITH THE PPI! Its irrelevant and just confusing you. It wouldn't matter if it was a billion PPI. Just forget about it, it has no influence on your results.

 

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Explorer ,
Dec 29, 2023 Dec 29, 2023

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Look I really don't care about PPI. I was only pointing out what was
different. To try to find a solution.

Unfortunately I have not seen the answer explaining what I should be doing
at this point to make it work. 100% of the files that I'm going to be
working with are going to be larger than the size that I need them to be.
So what I am asking is what is the workflow process that when something's
larger and you need to make it smaller but you don't need it to be blocky.

The only thing I've come up with so far was I did the opposite. Since the
line picture was larger than the explorer picture, I am imported the
explorer over and expanded him as large as I could and then reduce the size
of the lion behind him and that image is less blocky than the original way
I was describing.
But I just don't think I should have to be doing any of that. If pixels per
inch. Do not matter then I shouldn't be seeing a difference.
I think some of it might be that there's a limit to how much you can reduce
an image before you can't stay smooth and that at 100% the eye necessarily
can't see it and I'm just seeing it because I'm zooming into work on it.

But seriously, I know I asked for education but now I just want to be able
to do this. The only advice I've gotten so far is to not think of anything
about resolution or how densely packed the pixels are and that my line file
is too large.
Okay, thank you for that information but what do I do about it? How does
one take a picture and edit it that is going to be large and make it
smaller so that it's just an element I can bring into a new file? What's
the workflow process to do this?

For example, maybe you're supposed to create a new file and then place an
object into conform rather than just opening the picture and starting to
work with it?

At this point I'm looking for advice of how to work with what I got or
explain what normally is done step by step to get it so that you don't have
somebody telling you your files too large.

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Community Expert ,
Dec 30, 2023 Dec 30, 2023

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Hi @Mark245245051gxu ,

 

Hopefully this explanation helps regrading pixels/resolution and what others have stated above.

 

Every digital picture has a resolution at its base. While working in multiple files, it’s important to know what that means and how it compares to other files you are working in. Below is a great video explanation of how resolution, PPI, and DPI all relate (and not relate) to each other.

 

Understanding PPI and resolution

PPI is Imaginary! PPI vs DPI vs Resolution (youtube.com)

 

From what I can see in this thread is that the you are getting “blockines” in your lion reflection when you size it down is that you are sizing it so small on your working file that you are zooming and seeing the individual pixels in the very small imported lion image. You cannot go any smaller than a pixel in photoshop.  This is why others advice mention only being concerned about the resolution.

The only way to remove the “blockiness” for the lion, is to make the resolution of your canvas larger so when you scale the lion image to the small size you want in the binoculars, it will keep a higher resolution and be more clear. This will make your photoshop file larger and there is not a way around that overall.

You will need to know what you want your final output to be and change the size/resolution of your canvas to make your quality wants and needs.

 

If you are viewing this flyer on your phone or computer screen it may look perfectly fine as the overall flyer will be small and the lion reflection will be even smaller. You may not see the individual pixels. For a printed poster, you may need to increase the resolution (and get into ppi/dpi) to make the print more clear to your preference.

To help with non-destructive editing when importing other files you can also use smart objects in photoshop. Link below on that.

Using Smart objects in Photoshop

The COMPLETE Guide to Smart Objects in Photoshop (youtube.com)

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