What computer(s) do you recommend for photoshop painting?

[SquirrelMonkey88]

Hi,

I have a 4-year Packard Bell laptop computer that running on its last legs. So it's time for me to buy a new computer. I plan on mainly using it for digital painting with photoshop cs6. Therefore a computer that's very compatible with the newest versions of photoshop and graphic tablets like intous 5 is critically important. I am, however, terribly indecisive when it comes to choosing which one as there are so many and I'm not exactly tech savvy. I do have a short list of preferences though, that should help narrow down the dicision-making a bit:

- desktop computer

- large adjustable monitor

- compatible with photoshop cs6 + premium graphic tablets

- no Apple computer

- under $1500

It´s been suggested that I "build" my own computer, however this I do not want to do.

Thanks!

[Trevor.Dennis]

I'd be thinking in terms of a well balanced system.  There is no point in throwing half your budget at the CPU, for instance, if that leaves you short of RAM and with a poor choice of graphics card.  Make sure you have at least 1Gb of RAM on your graphics card to make use of GPU accelerated features.  I guess 2Gb might be better, (but I only have a 1Gb GTX570 on a high end system).   16Gb RAM seems to be the way to go nowadays, but at least 8Gb.  CS6 will use all the cores you throw at it, so four core (eight thread) minimum.  (I'm a year out of touch with CPUs)  At least a midi tower, but full tower would be better.  >750W gold standard PSU.   SSD for OS and program files; a drive reserved for Photoshop scratch space, and drive(s) for data. 

A good idea might be a pair of 1Tb drives on a raid0 for data, and a single 2Tb drive for backup.  I use Shadow Protect, and it has saved my ass twice in the last year or so.

[Noel Carboni]

Your budget and the desire to build a high-end graphics editing system are a little at odds ($1500 is tight, especially if you need a monitor).  You may need to push that up a bit, espeically if you want to make your machine a bit future-proof.

Just something to think about - an out-of-the-box idea might be to do what I do...  Get a used high-end workstation from eBay.  Last generation's workstation class machines (example, Dell Precision), populated with the high-end components of their era, come off lease all the time and they still outperform almost everything else.  You can get a surprising value this way if you shop a bit, make yourself familiar with what's available, and wait for a good deal.  With a little luck you can even get a manufacturer's warranty.

-Noel

[SquirrelMonkey88]

Hmm, I did not expect my budget would be "tight" for a pc of my desire. I guess I could push it up a bit, though I won't buying one then anytime soon. I've also been having second thoughts about building my own. What do you think? Will it give me more bang for my buck? And how does it work exactly? I'm hesitant about it because my father once bought a computer from a guy who builds his own computers and we've always had problems with it and it broke down early in its lifetime.

[Noel Carboni]

A lot of people build systems, and they often get along fine. 

Personally, though I'm capable (I'm a career computer software engineer) I prefer to buy factory-built systems.  My workstation is perfectly stable.  I literally reboot it only when Windows Updates or driver installs require it.  I rely on my systems for my business.

My best friend is a computer tech who built his own i7 system (I believe he spent about $2K total).  He had tons of problems with it, and still to this day he's never managed to get it to be perfectly stable.

You can really spend anywhere from mild to wild amounts of money on this stuff, but bear in mind that Photoshop is one of the most demanding applications you'll ever find.  Because of that, and the other work I do, I personally prefer high-end workstations, and I tend to build them to be as future-proof as possible, to give me longer to use them before needing an upgrade again.

What hardware do you have already, that you'll be reusing (e.g., keyboard, monitor, etc.)?  I know you've said you're moving up from a laptop.

Assuming you already have a monitor/keyboard, on a STRICT budget of $1500 I might consider something like this Dell Precision T5500 machine, which is fast as is but can be upgraded to be even more powerful by adding more hardware (e.g., a second processor) later.  Only thing you'd have to add now is a better video card, e.g., an ATI Radeon HD 7750.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-WORKSTATION-T5500-1-X-INTEL-6C-X5650-2-66GHZ-32GB-RAM-2-X-1TB-SATA-/310...

-Noel

[SquirrelMonkey88]

Hardware that I already have? Nothing really, save for a router if that counts. Those Dell Precision computers you mentioned look pretty good. I have my eye on one of the T3600 models. http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-t3600/fs The left and middle one are in my price range. However they only have 250GB hard-drive space as opposed to the recommended 1TB. Do you think I can get by painting in photoshop with 250GB? And how do the other specs fare?

[Noel Carboni]

You're not going to be able to get a complete, brand new Dell workstation that's not wanting for more RAM and disk space for your price range.  Maybe you can get closer if you buy refurbished, as JJ and I have said/done ourselves.

Let's take stock of what you want:

1.  You want a complete system that will run Photoshop well. 

2.  You want this to be cheap.

Since Photoshop is pretty much THE most demanding application you'll find, these are obviously conflicting goals, so you'll need to compromise.  There are those who have spent 4 times your budget to optimize item 1.  And there are those who have met your budget and Photoshop works, but not ideally.  A fair number of folks come on this forum and report that their computers have difficulty keeping up with them when they paint/sketch with tablets.

Since you need to buy a monitor, and a tablet, as well as a computer system complete with keyboard and mouse, I still think you're just too low with your budget.  Computers with the kind of power you need don't come cheap.

Not to complicate things, but don't forget to consider a few other things, such as what are you going to do for backup (e.g., an external USB drive), the price of the OS itself, other applications you may need such as Office, that you'll want more than the bottom-of-the-line monitor (and possibly even 2 of them), etc.

Good luck.

-Noel

[SquirrelMonkey88]

Thank you Noel for your continued support. Alright, you´ve made it clear that my budget is much too low for the kind of computer I want. What price range would you say I should be looking at here? Let's take into account a non-refurbished/used computer system, exlcuding a monitor. Nevermind Office and graphics tablet, I have those already.

[JJMack]

SquirrelMonkey88 wrote:

Let's take into account a non-refurbished/used computer system, exlcuding a monitor. 

I think your making a huge mistake there.   The refurbish machine I received from dell looked like it was manufactured yesterday and it comes with the same 3yrs warrantee that new Dell machines come with.   The machine is a current model with a cpu performance ranking among the top 20. Ok it was 20 on that list.  The BIG differences between a new machines are you can order the new machine any day.  You have to wait for the refurbished machine you want to be posted and be lucky to be first to order it. And of course the price new my machine price is $3,600.00  referbished it was $2,030.00 that is like a 45% discount your brushing off.

You can get a referbished without a monitor for $1500 though  $2000 to $2500 would be much better when you realize with the 45% discount your actually getting a $4,000 machine.

[SquirrelMonkey88]

Thank you Jack. Do you buy refurbished dell computers in the dell outlet section of their site?

[Noel Carboni]

I believe JJ got a refurbished Dell Precision T5600 6 core workstation there not long ago and it sounds like he likes it very much.  It's no surprise -they're great systems.

Mine is a refurbished Precision T5500 dual processor system (12 cores in all) that I got a year ago from an eBay reseller, and because I spent a little more than JJ and got dual high-end processors my CPU performance even today ranks 11th highest on the Passmark CPU Mark list of all-time fastest multiple CPU systems.

The point is that these systems are amazing performers, being outpaced only by systems that cost thousands more.  They're not really cheap, but the price is actually reasonable since they're used/refurbished.  And they're about as future proof as any system you'll find.

Both JJ and I actually got 3 year Dell warranties with our systems (correct me if I'm wrong, JJ).

SquirrelMonkey88, your task is now to learn and understand everything about computer systems, so that you can pick a system that fits you well.  You're doing the right thing, asking experts. 

Generally speaking, you might look for a platform that has the right processor(s), and maybe all the RAM you'll need, but with the cheapest possible video card.  Then you can replace the video card with one that will run Photoshop and the Creative Suite well, and maybe add disk drives.

Here are just some quick examples, available right now:

1.  Precision T5600 with 6 core Xeon E5-2620, 16 GB RAM, and 500GB hard drive - $1399.98.  Add a 256 GB OCZ Vector SSD for $270 more, and an ATI Radeon HD 7750 for another $105.  You can add a second processor, more RAM, more disk drives or SSDs in the future to expand the system.

2.  Precision T5500 with 2 x 6 core Xeon E5645, 24 GB ECC RAM, and 1TB hard drive - $1899.99.  Add an ATI Radeon HD 7850 for another $200.  Add more disk drives/SSDs in the future.

You could go directly to Dell's refurbished sales site as well and possibly find similar deals.

-Noel

[JJMack]

Yes directly from Dell Outlet with 3Yrs warrantee.   I needed to know what components had a good price performance cost CPU in particular.  Know the kind of system configuration  I wanted and know which video cards would work well have good drives and work well with Photoshop.  Then I had to monitor Dell Outlet web site for as soon as Dell post a well configured refurbished system for sale they are snapped up by waiting user like me. If you snooze you loose.   You can grab several for 15 minuets. If you don't commit within that time they are taken away from you and are re-posted.  You need to be ready to commit.... I could not be any happier that I did....

If you need a display they also have refurbish displays.  LCD colors are very stable and the panels are long lasting.  Backlight failures are the most common failure.  However I believe many refurbished machine are not even repaired machines.  I believe some are just returned products that Dell is not allow to sell as new.  Myself  I ordered a 24" display when Dell first announce it. It had a PVA Display my wife was not happy with it.  So I returned it to Dell and ordered two 20" IPS UXGA displays for around the same price we still use them and they have more pixels together then the larger single 24" display.  And having two displays on a system with Photoshop is great.

My new workstation though more powerful then our XPS Dell I7 machine is not really being used yet for Photoshop.  For I only have a cheap 23" 1920x1080 TN Samsung display on it.  I'm hope some manufacture will market a small high resolution IPS display.   So many tablets netbooks and laptops have high resolution LCD panels. So panels exists  and can be manufactured so why not make a high resolution desktop display.  I do not want a 30" 100dpi 2560x1600pixel display  I would much prefer a 20"  2560x1600 pixel display.  Current video cards can drive them. The higher 150DPI + resolution would look great and I wouldn't need to pan about a 30" monster.  

There are some high resolution medical displays and some old IBM T201 displays around.  These displays have to many pixels for the current crop of High Prices Video Cards. These display adapters that can cost thousands but can not support  9.2 mpixels displays that have 3840x2400 pixels.   Displays with 2560x1600 pixels should be cheaper to manufacture and there is a waiting market for these displays IMO I'm in that market anyway....

[JJMack]

I made a rule for myself years ago when replacing system which means to me the box that house the stuff does not include externals like Displays, Printers, UPS, routers, etc you get the best value  for dollar and a system that will last for years if yos cam spend between $1500 and $2500 do some research and not buy the latest greatest and fastest.  First of all that would be well above $4000.  I normally start by look at the current line of CPU offerings and look for one the have good performance yet don't break the bank.  Then I look for refurbished machines from Dell the come with service and a 3yr warrantee.  Photoshop these days also wants a good video card with Memory and GPU.  RAM can be added so that not to important hard disk performance is for the will be paging and swapping going on.  Good configuration refurbish machine are gone as fast as they are placed online.  When you need a new machine you have to check the sight daily to grab a good configuration. I just did. While there are some good machine for sale now I would wait. Here is what I saw researching current CPU:

What I waited for and got as soon as it appeared:

Dell Outlet Precision Fixed Workstation T5600, 825W Tower

Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit Operating System DVD

Processor: Intel Xeon Dual Six Core E5-2620 Processor (2.0GHz, 15M, 7.2 GT/s,Turbo)

2GB NVIDIA Quadro 4000, Dual Monitor, 2DP & 1DVI (max resolution 2560x1600 two)

8GB, DDR3 RDIMM Memory, 1600MHz, ECC (4 DIMMS)

PERC H310 RAID Controller

256 GB Solid State Drive

500 GB SATA, 3.5 Inch, 10K Hard Drive

8X DVD +/- RW Optical Drive

English  Keyboard

Dell USB Optical Mouse

Precision T5600: 3 Year Basic Hardware Service with 3 Year

8GB RAM SNPRYK18C/8G (dell $107) Dell Part# A5681559 and A5681561

Ebay off brand  registered $62 min order 25???

web off brand DMS registered $79

$2,029.00 Dell Outlet       + $180 4TB external USB3 Disk  $316 32GB ECC memory  Total $2,525,00

$3,598.10 Dell Sale Price

$5,135.86 Dell List no one pays list

In your price range after you add display. http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/Online/SecondaryInventorySearch.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28&...

Message was edited by: JJMack

[davidc1815]

I do a lot of natural media simulation photo painting and free brushing with both CS6 and Painter 12 and the key thing in painting is the speed with which brush strokes render.  It can be agonisingly slow working on a highish res image with a mid to large brush.  I found that the key components are the cpu and motherboard, OS/programs' hdd, graphics card, and memory.  I am sure there are lots of components and configurations that will work well but I can say for sure that an Intel 3770K, Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe, 256Gb Crucial SSD for OS and programs, Asus GTX 660, and 32Gb of ram give me a very satisfactory speed with painting and applying filters.  Brush lag is really irritating and it's worth spending the money to avoid this as far as possible.

[Noel Carboni]

Some parts of the painting process are single-threaded (not hard to imagine why), and so single core speed is quite important.  That's why the newest processors, e.g., i7-3770K and E5-2640, are good for this. 

Interestingly, JJ's and my single core speed are almost on par, with JJ's being about 2% faster.  The i7-3770K single core speed is up to 70% faster.

-Noel

[SquirrelMonkey88]

Here I am again. I've been chatting with some sales experts on the Dell site. 3 to be exact. The first 2 recommended I should buy the XPS 8700. The last one recommended me the Precision T1650 with these specs:

Processor: four core, XEON E3-1225 v2 (3.2Ghz)

Memory: 16GB, non-ECC

Graphics: NVIDIA quadro NVS 510, 2GB

This with a subtotal of $1213.

She also recommended this monitor: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=320-9567

What do you guys think? I know it's well under $2000-$2500 but she said it's still very good for the applications I will use for it.

[JJMack]

SquirrelMonkey88 wrote:

The last one recommended me the Precision T1650 with these specs:

Processor: four core, XEON E3-1225 v2 (3.2Ghz)

Memory: 16GB, non-ECC

Graphics: NVIDIA quadro NVS 510, 2GB

This with a subtotal of $1213.

She also recommended this monitor: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd& cs=04&sku=320-9567

What do you guys think? I know it's well under $2000-$2500 but she said it's still very good for the applications I will use for it.

The quadro nvs 510 is a new card I know nothing about but looking at its specs it looks like it can drive a 4k display when they start to show up 3840x 2160 pixels 16:9 aspect ratio.

The t1650 and t3600 systems are not very expandable however they are cheaper then the t5600.  I would also prefer ECC Ram.

Dell outlet has not have any good configurations lately 

[Trevor.Dennis]

1920x1200 pixels is going to give you pretty small tool icons with a 24 inch monitor, but I am probably referencing my own, less than perfect eye sight.  I'd also think very strongly about having dual monitors so your entire image will fit on the main monitor, and you can have all your important panels open on the other.  I'd hate to have to cope with a single monitor after using two for years now, and I’d set u[ a third monitor if I could think what to do with the printer that sits on the other end of my desk.

And why Dell?  The price?  Go check out Video Guys who build or just supply build guides for NLE systems.  Those computers would be excellent for Photoshop, and pretty much any other graphics related application you might want to use in the lifetime of the new system.  At least read through the guides to get a decent feel for what components work and why.

[SquirrelMonkey88]

I'm not keen on dual monitors. I'd rather have a large screen with the main image and the panels set aside in the corner than 2 small/medium screens on which one screen has only the panels. Having a whole screen with only panels seems a bit of a waste to me. Besides, I don't have that many panels open anyway, but that may change in the future as I'll be more familiar with the software.

Aside from the small tool icons you mentioned, of which i'm not really concerned about, how do the other specs fare? Will I be able to run photoshop smoothly whilst painting with a graphics tablet???

[SquirrelMonkey88]

I´m terribly sorry I keep coming back tot his thread. I know, it’s over a month old and you’d think I’d have bought a computer by now. I don´t have a computer of my own that works so I use my mother´s whenever I can. Anyway, I´ve been looking on ebay for a good desktop. Is there any particular one in this list I should buy?  http://www.ebay.com/sch/Computers-Tablets-Networking-/58058/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=dell%20precision&_...

I can spend around $1700, so I’m thinking up to $1500 for a desktop and around $300 for a monitor. Here are some monitors: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Computers-Tablets-Networking-/58058/i.html?Screen%2520Size=24%2522&_from=R40... I filtered in all 24” LED monitors, but I’m not sure LED is really that important for photoshop painting.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

[Trevor.Dennis]

Hey, don't apologise.  It’s an interesting thread, and I have just read right through it again because I in the market for a laptop.

I am wondering exactly what Dell mean by refurbished?  I have Googled and not really found a definitive answer.

[SquirrelMonkey88]

Eh? Refurbished is refurbished, isn't it? Refurbished products are products that are returned to the manufacturer for whatever reason and then tested for functionality and defects before they are sold again. On the Dell outlet they sell refurbished, previously ordered new and overstocked products. Unfortunately in my case I cannot not purchase from Dell's outlet because I live outside the US and there is no outlet on the Dell site for my country. Also Dell products available in my country are very limited and the only good ones are way too overpriced

[SquirrelMonkey88]

Bump.

[smb8282]

A Mac.

[SquirrelMonkey88]

Hmmm. On second thought the shipping costs on eBay are too expensive. Here's and article from a dutch (my country) site called marktplaats which is a lot like eBay: http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/computers-en-software/desktop-pc-s/m663296334-dell-precision-t5500-x5640...

The specs are as follows:

• Intel® Xeon® Processor E5640  Xeon i7 2,67Ghz Quad Core
• 12GB Triple Channel
• 600GB SAS 15000RPM
• Nvidia GeForce GTX470
• Dell 875watt
• Windows 7 Pro
• 1 year warranty

The price is 749 euros which is about 976 dollars.

Is it a good deal guys? Is it powerful enough to suit my needs? If not, is the T5500 model much expandable? I would very much appreciate an answer from you guys.