Working w/ cumulative layers; preferred protocol?

[BH888]

Newbie question:

When utilizing multiple layers to complete a portrait retouch, when (& why) is it appropriate to merge layers, create a stamped visible layer, flatten an image, etc?  In other words, what is the preferred protocol for working with the cumulative layers, as new layers are added in the retouching process?

Whatever the preferred protocol, I would like to retain the option of going back later and tweaking a previously retouched layer.  Is there a protocol that would leave that option open to me?

One concerning issue arose awhile back that I am still confused about.  When I adjusted the uppermost layer opacity, it seemed to alter the previously adjusted opacity of a retouched layer below.  How do I avoid that from happening?  It seems that the protocol I am using for working with multiple layers may be at the heart of that problem.

[Nancy OShea]

That's a good question.   Photoshop is a resource hog.  Back in the bad old days when I had an underpowered laptop computer, memory was a big issue as I didn't have enough scratch disk space or RAM.   If I wanted to keep working on a complex project it was often necessary to merge layers or flatten the image to keep file size manageable.   You do what you have to do.

My preference is to keep all layers, grouped or otherwise in a backup file just in case I ever want to revert to them.  

Merging layers is a judgement call.   You may have 3 shape layers that could just as easily be combined into one.  If so, go ahead and merge them.

Learn to use Smart Objects.  

Work with Smart Objects in Photoshop

[davescm]

Hi

Unless you are getting memory or slowdown issues then there is no reason to merge your layers unless you want to apply an effect and, even then, I would just put them in a smart object and apply the effect to that.

Your issue on opacity suggests you may be duplicating the original image. You can often apply your retouches using adjustment layers or healing and cloning to seperate layers leaving the original untouched.

Two protocols that you should follow though :

1. Name your layers. Once you get a lot of them it can be awkward trying to find the particular layer where you cloned out that pimple

2. Save incrementally as you go i.e filename 001, filename 002, filename 003 etc  That way if you crash (or just make a bad error) you can always step back to an earlier saved version without losing too much work. You can get rid of the interim versions once you are happy with the result.

Dave

[mglush]

Hi!

I want to add my 2 cents in with the excellent advice that Nancy and Dave have already posted. Here is part of my workflow: When I am retouching an image I will work with different parts of the image on different layers--skin, eyes, blemishes, shadows and wrinkles, etc. and when I am satisfied with the image so far, I will merge them all to a new layer using the Shift-Opt-Cmd-E or Shift-Alt-Ctrl-E. Then I can take it to the next level and still have all my original layers intact. I also try to keep those original layers grouped in a folder below that layer for safe keeping. Thi

It's very possible that you may have had one of your original layers selected when you changed the opacity or if it was grouped in a folder with the uppermost layer it could have also changed that way.

Michelle

[BH888]

Thank you all for your comments, - all providing helpful advice.  Thank you, too, for explaining why a person may want to merge layers. Some of the tutorials I’ve seen have said to merge layers, but I never knew the reason why.

Michelle,

If I could just ask a simple follow up question to your reply:  If I merge layers, will I be able to later unmerge the layers & tweak any one particular layer that was in the original merged group?

I think you, as well as Dave & Nancy, have implied that the answer is, “Yes”, but I just want to be sure.

Bruce

[davescm]

It depends how you merge.

If you merge a copy onto a new layer (shotcut Shift+Ctrl+Alt+E) then all the original layers still exist. However if you merge down, or merge visible - the original layers disappear forever (or at least they do once they move out of your history steps or you close the document).

Putting layers in a smart object is different - the smart object can be opened and edited at any time.

Dave

[jane-e]

BH888@aol.com  wrote

If I merge layers, will I be able to later unmerge the layers & tweak any one particular layer that was in the original merged group?

Bruce, I don’t think this question was answered directly: if you merge layers together, there is no way to unmerge them.

~ Jane

[mglush]

Hi!

The answer is actually no--you cannot un-merge layers (unless you still have it in your history panel) BUT that is why you use the keyboard shortcut I mentioned to merge everything together. When you use that combination it actually takes everything visible and puts it all on one layer--leaving everything you worked on untouched and intact. Make sure that you have the top-most layer selected and it will place the newly merged (or Stamped) layer on the top of the stack.

If you do need to go back to one of your original layers, you can just turn off the visibility of the merged layer or throw it away. Then you can go back to your original to make changes, and create a new merged layer.

It's sort of the best of both worlds!

Let us know if you have any other questions--we're happy to help!

Michelle

[BH888]

Based on all your suggestions, learning to work with smart objects will probably go a long way towards allaying some of my concerns about going back & re-tweaking a layer. A short while ago, however, I tried converting a merged group to a smart object and then tried to employ the liquefy tool.  (Didn’t really know what I was doing, but proceeded blindly with the notion that the SO layer would be indestructible, and that I could return to re-tweak it much later if I wanted.)   Somehow, however, I was getting ghosting of that part of the original image that was present before applying forward warp to it. That frustrating experience had discouraged me from learning even the basics of smart objects, - at least for the time being.

With regard to preserving the option of re-tweaking a layer after merging into a group, I will apply your suggestions this coming week.

As I understand it then, if I choose to merge layers into a group, I make those visible layers active, and use the command:  Shift + Alt + Cntrl + E.  (What do I do with my thumb?)

This will create a merged group that will be represented by a newly created top layer (the “stamped layer”?).  If I ever want to go back & tweak any of the merged layers, I simply delete or turn off the visibility of that newly created top layer, which will now give me access to all the layers that comprised the previously merged group, - with the option of re-tweaking any of those layers.  I’ll give it a try this coming week.

One incidental question: If I happen to save the image, together with the merged group, can I still return later and gain access to the individual layers in the group, by deleting or turning off the visibility of the representative top layer of the group, as described above?

[davescm]

Hi

Yes what you describe will work. The merged copy still retains the layers below. Saving to tiff,  psd, or psb formats retains your layers.

You rarely need to do that though. If you are not applying filters or transforming then just keep the layers as is.

If you need filters or transforms, then select your layers and convert to smart object. Then you can apply filters to the smart object whilst retaining the editable content, with the bonus that the filter is also editable.

Dave

[Trevor.Dennis]

I like to merge groups into Smart objects.  This works so long as you are able to update the SO in its new window after double clicking, without the context of the rest of the image.  If that becomes a problem I open the SO in a new window > select and Group all the layers > and duplicate back to the master document.

The down side is that what Nancy said about Photoshop being a resource hog is completely true, and you can get into lag states with large documents.  We've experiment with this in other threads, and even Edit > Purge > All does not return system resources, and close the huge Scratch files.  The only way to do this is to restart Photoshop.

Another advantage of using Smart Objects is you can make them a library resource.  You can drag an SO to a CC library for use in other documents.  This works with things like eyes, that can have heaps of layers, and take some time to make.