Layer-Masks in RGB Mode and RGB Channels take on the Grey Mode Dot-Gain Color Settings Errors

[Max Chroma]

This is a long-standing problem with how Photoshop applies and calculates "color settings" incorrectly across the board with CMYK and Greyscale (Duotone as well) and Multichannel color modes.  I thought that RGB Mode was the one "safe space" I could confidently work within without the completely miscalculated Gamma / Dot-Gain problems of the other modes.  Unfortunately I have just discovered that this also affects all Layer-Masks in RGB Mode, and also if making a "Control-Select" of the RGB Channel (or of course one of the R, G, or B channels).  First issue is that not only does the "Grey" setting in Color Settings affect the "preview" of the individual channels... but it also affects what gets selected when doing a Control-Select of that channel in order to make a "greyscale-to-transparency" selection.  The second part of this issue is that Layer-Masks has become a standard way of applying transpareny to a layer, and what I just discovered is that because Layer-Masks use a "Channel" to achieve the masking,  this channel will take on the Grey Mode dot-gain or gamma settings.  I usually have an sGrey profile (similar to a 2.2 Gamma profile) set for the Grey Mode Color Settings, to correct the issue of greyscale previews (20% dot-gain default setting is totally wrong, dot-gain is applied incorrectly across the board in all of these modes).  The problem is that even within RGB Mode, any layer mask will then actually affect the layer based on the Grey Mode Color Setting.  Some people use specific curves in that setting, so I can't just write into my actions that I develop a switch to sGrey in the color settings, and I can't write an action that forces the correct masking method without resorting to clipping-masks,  and I can't create the correct transparency for a clipping mask without control-selecting the RGB channel, unless I create an action that literally goes through each grey level of the layer as solid-pixel selections and then fill them in with opacity... which leads to the other long-standing problem of being limited to 100% levels of Opacity settings instead of 256 levels for true 8-bit opacity.   This is a huge problem compounding upon all the other color-mode issues mentioned above, but it leaves me frustrated that even RGB mode is getting affected by these incorrectly calculated color settings.   

If I can create a true 256-level opacity layer out of the greyscale of a layer, then I can use it as a clipping-mask to create the true 8-bit opacity masking without the Grey Mode color setting affecting the mask, therefore having a masking method that is not going to be affected by the user's "dot-gain" settings in Grey Mode, and not have to change their grey-mode setting or suggest them to change it to sGrey or a Gamma 2.2.  The problem then is that opacity settings cannot be set to more than 0 to 100% levels... which is something like 6.5 bits (6-bit being 64 levels, and 7-bit being 128 levels).   

I'm sure this will never be corrected by the Photoshop programmers, there are now way too many people relying on the incorrectly calculated color-mode settings in their work... but I was surprised to see that the Grey-Mode settings are affecting all layer-masks and control-selections of RGB Channels even in RGB Mode.  Looking at testing with Adjustment Layers, I also just realized there is no workaround for adjustment layers to be set to a Clipping-Mask Layer in order to mask the adjustments... the clipping layer must be visible, so trying to use a layer with transparency built-in to mask an adjustment-layer will not work, it only works on a color-fill layer or another layer of pixels above.  I call the Greyscale, CMYK, Duotone, and Multichannel modes in Photoshop "Danger-Zones" for all of these dot-gain color-setting issues, but now I have to warn users of all these issues even within RGB mode??  I'm truly shocked at how poorly developed this program really is, even with all the supposed resources Adobe should have to be able to think ahead like when creating the entire technique of layer-masking using alpha channels... I understand not wanting to correct the long-standing color-setting calculation issues because of how many users probably rely on the incorrect errors in their work and would be shocked by it being changed, but I wish there was at least an option to turn those things off and look at the true values as they really are, and also not have layer-masks in RGB affected by those other mode color settings.  Using Photoshop for 20 years and disappointed constantly at how many errors are present throughout the program in the most fundamental ways dealing with color settings for editing, appearance and printing, etc.  

[jane-e]

Hi

You can report bugs to the engineers in a different forum:

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family

~ Jane

[davescm]

Hi
The best place to raise this would be as a feature request here https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family where it will be seen by the development team rather than just Photoshop users on this forum.

{Link corrected - it appears pasting it in caused an issue - I've now used the add a link box}
Dave

[Max Chroma]

Hello, Thank you for responding to both you and Jane-e, however the link you are providing goes to a Page Not Found... possibly because of the switch to these new forums. I noticed yesterday when doing google-searches for some other issues, that all links are now broken from google and other search methods to the forum threads.

[davescm]

Hi - I've corrected the link above

[Max Chroma]

Thanks Dave, I posted over in the Photoshop Family forum here: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/layer-masks-in-rgb-mode-and-rgb-channels-take...

Edit:  So should I delete this post on the community forum here or if you control that then feel free to remove it.  Thanks for redirecting me and fixing the link. 

[davescm]

Hi, it's fine to leave this post here. Others may come across it and want to chip in or may want to use the link and add comments to your request.

[D Fosse]

You keep insisting that it's "incorrect", but in fact it's entirely consistent and logical: any grayscale representation that doesn't have an embedded grayscale profile, gets the working gray assigned. And of course a single channel representation doesn't have a separate grayscale profile.

But let's say we could organize this better.

What you want is to have an sRGB file assign sGray, an Adobe RGB file assign gray gamma 2.2, and a ProPhoto file assign gray gamma 1.8. OK, I suppose that's doable. Then you'd get a full grayscale match.

For CMYK you can already set working gray to "Black Ink" for whatever profile you want, and this could be set to behave the same way. However, that would not be strictly correct for C M and Y, which may have other curves.

We all agree that the dot gain profiles are useless. They are generic and don't correspond to actual ink spread in the paper, and don't have any relevance at all for RGB. The problem is that it's still the default working gray, probably just for legacy reasons.

I don't see any justification for going to all this trouble. It would probably confuse a lot of people, and I still suspect it would be very hard to get full consistency (like there is now).

Another thing is luminosity selections. They go by the mysterious curve known as, yes, luminosity, which is very similar to Lab L, but not quite identical. This I think would be a better place to start: make luminosity = L, which would give us a fixed reference.

[Max Chroma]

This wasn't intended to start a discussion about color profiles and their uses (or uselessness if applied incorrectly such as "dot-gain" preview simulation)... that is an entirely different subject. Even if we consider the alpha channels as greyscale channels and should have the greyscale mode color profile applied when viewing by themselves, and that this should also be how they are applied as alpha transparency to the layer or adjustment layers within RGB Mode.. then the main "incorrect" issue is still that when changing the greyscale color profile, it does not update all of the layer-mask alpha channels. It is only once you click on one of them, only that one updates to show how the greyscale color setting curve was changed. All the other stuff aside, that would be the "bug" here that I am getting at... You can still change it back, it is non-destructively changing how the alpha is applied, but it does not change until you select one. So you could have a bunch of layer masks, in an RGB document, and the greyscale color settings could be changed, and selecting one or a few of the masks would update them to the new greyscale color setting, but not all of the others... that is where the "consistency" breaks down.