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We’re pleased to bring to public beta some dramatic improvements and expansions to the color management experience, tailored specifically to the needs of the Premiere Pro editor. With the right source clip metadata, color management automatically adjusts the color and contrast of each clip in your sequence so that every source clip from every camera is converted into a shared color space for further adjustment, and then output to the color space of your choice with automated color space conversions, tone mapping, and gamut compression creating high-quality output with the correct color.
In this new version, color management becomes more automated, handles more formats, preserves more image data, and gives you more flexibility to choose just the right workflow for your needs, even turning it off either partially or completely if you would rather work manually using Input LUTs, Creative LUTs, and effects.
After installing the public beta, your default Premiere Pro experience shouldn’t seem that different from before, but there’s a lot under the hood to explore. Here’s a rundown of the new features we’ve made available when using Premiere Pro color management:
As you can see, color management in Premiere Pro has become quite a bit more sophisticated. However, the best way to experience this is by upgrading to the public beta, creating a new project, importing some media, and experimenting for yourself:
As you experiment with the new color management options, be sure to share your questions or comments in this forum. We also encourage you to view the new color management documentation on our website: https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/color-management-improvements.html.
Keep in mind that we’ll be continuing to bring improvements throughout the public beta period as we respond to issues reported, so details may change as time goes on.
We look forward to your feedback!
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Can we get colour space tagging on export too? So we can use 1-2-1 tag when using rec709 2.4 gamma.
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@Alexis Van Hurkmanor any color staffers ... in general I do like the algo's used in Premiere's auto log detect/ auto tonemapping process.
One question ... just on account of being used to doing this elsewhere ... is there any way to apply the tonemapping algo, and tweak exposure/contrast before it?
As we can with say a LUT applied in the Creative tab, using Basic tab to trim the clip into the LUT. Or by node based CSTs in Resolve?
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That can only work if you are working in a scene-refered color space like ACEScct. Then Lumetri exposure is linear gain, or you can use Brightness & Contrast effect to use log offset rather than linear gain which is preferred if exposing up. It's contrast slider is linear contrast.
If you don't want to work in log you only have the exposure 'compensation' slider that is in the color management panel itself where the per clip tone mapping settings are.
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Yea, that's a given this would be scene-referred.
But how do we apply their tonemapping after we do the trim? What's the steps there ... if it's possible.
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Not sure if I understand what you mean by "how do we apply".
There are 3 main scenarios.
1. Manual management. You decide when you convert and tonemap (with your own LUTs or other means of managing color). And thus when / where in the order of operations exposure/contrast is applied.
2. Direct Rec.709 tonemapped management which means everything is already tone mapped to display and then any effect applied on clips happens afterwards. This does not allow for photometric exposure and contrast adjustments.
3. ACEScct tonemapped. Any effect applied on the clip is in ACEScct space so can do either Lumetri exposure (linear gain if Color Space Aware is enabled) or Brightness & Contrast (offset) to change exposure photometrically. Tonemapping happens after all effects are applied on a clip.
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@Alexis Van Hurkman Hey, I've done little more testing.
fnord's OpenColorIO & BorisFX' S_OCIOTransform plugins are broken:
With ACEScct and Direct when, I add the OpenColorIO plugin (without even loading a config) the image breaks. Why is that? They work fine in non managed context, even with conversions to linear and back.
Mixing sequences -> squish...
When I put that ARRI sample clip in a non managed Rec.709 sequence and place that sequence in ACEScct, the squish from around 42 IRE and up happens. We also do not have any control over manually overriding the unmanaged sequence's color space. Maybe that partially makes sense, but if we need/want to preserve appearance for Rec.709 we need at least an inverse of the DRTs when using ACEScct working space. I would hope that it's planned otherwise there's little point in using ACEScct.
[edit] I screenshotted the wrong scopes on the left (higher exposure) but the squish still happens.
Lumetri Color exposure in ACEScct:
According to my testing exposure has become linear gain. It would be nice to have an alternative log offset option which tends to be a preferred response when exposing up, taking along the black and negative values. Brightness & Contrast effect also do offset but the slider is too sensitive for log, requiring holding down CTRL/CMD. Plus having it included in Lumetri would make the tool more feature rich.
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Exposure has been linear gain with an intriguing roll-off in SDR as it hits around 98IRE. But straight gain always going down.
The Shadows wheel is Lift ... so Lumetri hasn't had any Offset, actually, and that has always been a gripe of mine. I prefer OGG to LGG any time day or night, but then, I'm not necessarily the average bear.
Getting an Offset option to me would be a huge improvement.
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That rolloff when increasing is only in the 'non color space aware' mode. When you use ACEScct color management it is matching multiplication in linear image state. So I'm assuming there is an internal conversion from ACEScct to AP1/Linear (ACEScg) and back to achieve this. But we haven't been given any real technical information unforetunately...
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That would be nice to know ... I never like guessing. Never.
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Try for yourself, I converted logC3 to linear and added 8.0 gain meaning 3 stops.
Put the original in ACEScct timeline and add Lumetri with Exposure to 3 and it should match, or at least be very very close. Premiere's still exporter does pngs in 8bit only but shouldn't matter for this case.
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Shebbe, I don't doubt you for a second. You're well above my paygrade in most of this stuff.
It's just I also want that detailed explanation of the pipeline process used. I like to know the underlying hard data stuff as much as possible.
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Hello,
I am a bit lost whe it comes to using Apple video (from an Iphone). In the latest version uodate, I do not see anywhere how todisable "log color management". So my Iphone clips look super blowed out. The only solution I found is to go the sequence setting and change the working color space to Rec.709 (which I always do) and then go in the Lumetri color setting panel an overrid the medio color space to Rec.709 too. The problem is that I cannot copy paste this color attribute to all the other clips. So I end up having to manually do it for each clip..
Do you have a solution for me?
Thanks
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You're only doing parts of the color management ... and then they don't align.
All color management tools are in the Lumetri panel, SETTINGS tab.
Set auto detect log on, set auto tonemapping on, and you can work with that media in either Rec.709 or HLG sequences without any individual clip management needed.
For most users, unless running a "clean feed" output via Decklink card, you should have Display Color Management on also. Mac users might want to use Viewing Gamma 1.96/Quicktime if you only care how it looks outside Premiere on your Mac without reference modes. (The rest of us will then get a much darker image of your video, but thank you Apple ...)
Past that, I can give you a much longer, more detailed go at the settings if needed.
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Hey Neil, I'll take you up on that 'more detailed' 🙂
Are these what you are referring to:
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Yup, although typically those things are sticky sort of? I never assume so, that's for sure.
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Thanks, so why does the Display Color Management, make my output darker on both the monitor and transmit also to a regular monitor, but the scopes don't change?
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Because the encoded values do not have a 1-1 relationship with the intended display values. When there is a mismatch, the OS can compensate this via it's profiling. This causes a 'gamma shift' because Rec.709 gamma 2.4 video needs to be gamma corrected for sRGB displays. The same is true for gamut but this does not change in that scenario because they both share the same. It would be true if say a Display P3 monitor was used. Without the checkbox you are always displaying the encoded values directly as is regardless of the kind of monitor in use.
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So then basically I don't need to have that checked on a PC with a standard monitors. (Samsung S32D850T)
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You do need it because standard PC monitors are not Rec.709, but rather sRGB or Gamma 2.2, and most modern 'premium' ones are P3 or close to in terms of gamut. The content you create is Rec.709 by the video/broadcast standard.
You can make a choice of not managing/viewing this correctly for sake of having a visual match in the context of uploading it to a place where it is still not properly managed and you'd see a 1-1 match. But it is a risky one because you cannot predict if others viewing that content have the same situation.
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Shebbe's mostly right, but my disagreement is only because his comments are short, and perhaps a bit "reductionist". Because it's a mess "out there".
Some monitors/TVs will work 'straight' stills form sRGB,using gamma 2.2 in Rec.709, true. And some apps/players tend to this also.
Other monitors and many TVs do use a display transform of 2.4 for Rec.709 media, though they do use "straight" sRGB/gamma 2.2 for still images. That's a part that confuses many people ... that stills and Rec.709 video can get a different gamma on many monitors/TVs.
The monitors I've tested, when set to their Rec.709 setting, did use gamma 2.4. But ... they were wildly off from proper WB and nits levels. And color up the chart from black through white. I would never trust a monitor's 'native' settings for anything.
Get a probe/software calibration setup and you'll actually be far better off.
But even after calibrating with a puck/software, unless you are using a dedicated "clean feed" output device!!!... you should have the "Display color management" option set on.
Oh ... one thing to NEVER EVER DO!!!!!!!
Do NOT set your monitor's Rec.709 to "full" levels ... just do NOT. Should be auto or video. Period.
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The scopes are image data... the display transforms happen after the image data is processed.
In Premiere, we now have:
Input state ... the original state or condition, such as Rec.709 or HLG or Slog-3 or whatever.
Input processing ... any step whether a LUT or algorithm to change Input State to something else.
Timeline space ... the working color space of the sequence.
Display space ... the color space of the display transform to the monitor.
Output space ... the color space of the output export preset.
Note that the Display space is processed after Input state, Input processing, and Timeline space (with any changes the user does to the timeline in Lumetri).
It's both far more capable than before, and ... far more complex.
How the many user settable things interact is actually pretty complex, and best left alone until you know precisely why something changes, and can accurately predict it.
For most users, Display color management, auto detect log, auto tonemapping should normally be ON. And really, for the most part, stick to Rec.709 as HDR is still too weirdly variable by screen. Sadly.
When done right, HDR is ... amazing.
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Thnak you very much, it worked! And thank you MyerPJ for the screenshot too!
As the can see the color are now correct in the editing window.
But it is all messed up in the Assembly window. Any idea how to gte the assembly monitor back to displaying properly?
Thank you!
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AFAIK the thumbnail preview is not managed yet but the Source Monitor should be if you have Auto Tone Map enabled for the whole project rather than just the sequence. Perhaps that functionality is not in the release version of Premiere Pro yet which from the looks of it is what you're using. This is the Premiere Pro Beta section of the forums.
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Thank s Shebbe! I'll see if it is fized in the next version then.
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Shebbe's right that the thumbnail is not ... anything, simply original "source" pixels. Which is in some ways useful, in some ways not so much.