Now in Beta: Dramatically updated color management in Premiere Pro

[Alexis Van Hurkman]

We’re pleased to bring to public beta some dramatic improvements and expansions to the color management experience, tailored specifically to the needs of the Premiere Pro editor. With the right source clip metadata, color management automatically adjusts the color and contrast of each clip in your sequence so that every source clip from every camera is converted into a shared color space for further adjustment, and then output to the color space of your choice with automated color space conversions, tone mapping, and gamut compression creating high-quality output with the correct color.

In this new version, color management becomes more automated, handles more formats, preserves more image data, and gives you more flexibility to choose just the right workflow for your needs, even turning it off either partially or completely if you would rather work manually using Input LUTs, Creative LUTs, and effects.

After installing the public beta, your default Premiere Pro experience shouldn’t seem that different from before, but there’s a lot under the hood to explore. Here’s a rundown of the new features we’ve made available when using Premiere Pro color management:

• Each sequence’s color management is easily configurable in the Sequence controls of the Settings tab of the Lumetri panel. By default, color management works similarly to the Premiere Pro color workflows you’re already used to when using the default Direct Rec.709 (SDR) preset. Alternately, you can choose to use one of our wide-gamut color processing presets to maximize the image quality of all grading and timeline effects when using wide-gamut or wide-latitude source media. Regardless of how you choose to work, Lumetri and other effects have been made color space aware, so they work well in any preset.
• Users who don’t want to use automated color management can now turn it off from within the same Color Setup menu. This is useful for pass-through workflows when you don’t want the color space of media being processed at all, or when engaging in traditional display-referred grading workflows using LUTs and manual adjustments.
• Premiere Pro now automatically color manages camera raw media, including Apple, ARRI, Canon, RED, and Sony raw media formats. As long as color management is enabled, raw clips will be automatically processed.
• The Override Media Color Space menu has been expanded to support even more color spaces for more cameras and formats, making it easier than ever to color manage media that were either recorded or transcoded to standard file formats such as QuickTime and MXF, without needing to track down the right input LUT.
• For clips you don’t want to be automatically color managed, a new Preserve RGB setting in the Color tab of the Modify Clip dialog prevents input to working color space conversions, allowing you to manually convert clips either using LUTs or manual filter adjustments.
• Program Monitor, Video Scopes, Transmit, and Media Export all output the image as it appears after conversion to a new Output Color Space setting. While the working color space lets you choose how media is processed, the Output color space lets you choose the specific color space you want to monitor (SDR, HDR PQ, or HLG) and deliver your program to. This guarantees that the working color space never needs to be changed, while making it easy to change color spaces at any time to create multiple deliverables using the same grade (e.g., delivering both HDR and SDR versions of the same sequence).
• Improved tone mapping algorithms and new gamut compression settings improve quality when automatically converting wide-gamut source media to standard dynamic range. Additionally, there are now two ways  of using tone mapping, on input or on output.
• Premiere Pro color management has been improved to enable smoother interoperability and color consistency using Dynamic Link for round-tripping color managed sequence clips between Premiere Pro and After Effects whenever you use the Replace with After Effects composition command.
• Last, but certainly not least, if you import projects and sequences created in older versions of Premiere Pro that have grading and effects already applied, these will automatically be configured to appear the same as before, while the color management will function exactly the same as before. If you decide you want to override these legacy settings and use the new color management, you can override the custom settings the sequence was set up with and choose a different color management preset (and you can use Undo if you find this was a mistake).

As you can see, color management in Premiere Pro has become quite a bit more sophisticated. However, the best way to experience this is by upgrading to the public beta, creating a new project, importing some media, and experimenting for yourself:

• By default, new sequences use the “Direct Rec.709 (SDR)” preset with the output set to Rec.709. This preset is best used when most of your source media is SDR but you’re importing some wide gamut camera raw or log-encoded media as well, and will give you the most familiar color handling experience.
• If you want to try working completely manually, you can open up the Sequence Settings and set the Color Setup menu to “Disable Color Management.”
• If you’re more adventurous, you can change the Color Setup menu to “Wide Gamut (Tone Mapped)” to try using the wide gamut workflow we’ve created to maximize the quality of sequences using primarily wide-gamut media.

As you experiment with the new color management options, be sure to share your questions or comments in this forum. We also encourage you to view the new color management documentation on our website: https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/color-management-improvements.html. 

Keep in mind that we’ll be continuing to bring improvements throughout the public beta period as we respond to issues reported, so details may change as time goes on.

We look forward to your feedback!

[MyerPj]

So then basically I don't need to have that checked on a PC with a standard monitors. (Samsung S32D850T)

[Shebbe]

You do need it because standard PC monitors are not Rec.709, but rather sRGB or Gamma 2.2, and most modern 'premium' ones are P3 or close to in terms of gamut. The content you create is Rec.709 by the video/broadcast standard.

You can make a choice of not managing/viewing this correctly for sake of having a visual match in the context of uploading it to a place where it is still not properly managed and you'd see a 1-1 match. But it is a risky one because you cannot predict if others viewing that content have the same situation.

[R Neil Haugen]

Shebbe's mostly right, but my disagreement is only because his comments are short, and perhaps a bit "reductionist". Because it's a mess "out there".

Some monitors/TVs will work 'straight' stills form sRGB,using gamma 2.2 in Rec.709, true. And some apps/players tend to this also.

Other monitors and many TVs do use a display transform of 2.4 for Rec.709 media, though they do use "straight" sRGB/gamma 2.2 for still images. That's a part that confuses many people ... that stills and Rec.709 video can get a different gamma on many monitors/TVs.

The monitors I've tested, when set to their Rec.709 setting, did use gamma 2.4. But ... they were wildly off from proper WB and nits levels. And color up the chart from black through white. I would never trust a monitor's 'native' settings for anything. 

Get a probe/software calibration setup and you'll actually be far better off. 

But even after calibrating with a puck/software, unless you are using a dedicated "clean feed" output device!!!... you should have the "Display color management" option set on.

Oh ... one thing to NEVER EVER DO!!!!!!!

Do NOT set your monitor's Rec.709 to "full" levels ... just do NOT. Should be auto or video. Period.

[R Neil Haugen]

The scopes are image data... the display transforms happen after the image data is processed.

In Premiere, we now have:

Input state ... the original state or condition, such as Rec.709 or HLG or Slog-3 or whatever.

Input processing ... any step whether a LUT or algorithm to change Input State to something else.

Timeline space ... the working color space of the sequence.

Display space ... the color space of the display transform to the monitor.

Output space ... the color space of the output export preset.

Note that the Display space is processed after Input state, Input processing, and Timeline space (with any changes the user does to the timeline in Lumetri).

It's both far more capable than before, and ... far more complex.

How the many user settable things interact is actually pretty complex, and best left alone until you know precisely why something changes, and can accurately predict it.

For most users, Display color management, auto detect log, auto tonemapping should normally be ON. And really, for the most part, stick to Rec.709 as HDR is still too weirdly variable by screen. Sadly.

When done right, HDR is ... amazing.

[Dominique30138412td6v]

Thnak you very much, it worked! And thank you MyerPJ for the screenshot too!

As the can see the color are now correct in the editing window.

 

But it is all messed up in the Assembly window. Any idea how to gte the assembly monitor back to displaying properly?

 

Thank you!

[Shebbe]

AFAIK the thumbnail preview is not managed yet but the Source Monitor should be if you have Auto Tone Map enabled for the whole project rather than just the sequence. Perhaps that functionality is not in the release version of Premiere Pro yet which from the looks of it is what you're using. This is the Premiere Pro Beta section of the forums.

[Dominique30138412td6v]

Thank s Shebbe! I'll see if it is fized in the next version then.

[R Neil Haugen]

Shebbe's right that the thumbnail is not ... anything, simply original "source" pixels. Which is in some ways useful, in some ways not so much.

[Shebbe]

I should clarify. Based on my testing:

Current release:

Display Color Management enabled - causes media thumbnails to be converted to the display space by OS display profiles. Internal conversion regarding sequence settings to Rec.709 including tonemapping is disabled. (displaying source pixels directly converted to the display.)

Source Monitor - Also shows original pixels directly but with Display Color Management enabled behaves the same as the thumbnails.

Current Beta:

Display Color Management enabled - thumbnails are still converted directly from source color space to the actual display, ignoring sequence settings.

Source Monitor - Takes whatever current opened sequence color management set up is and applies that to the source viewer so they match. This includes both Display Color Managment enabled or disabled.

@Alexis Van Hurkman 

Bug - When using direct SDR as management it looks like Tone Mapping method Hue Preservation is enabled for the source viewer despite picking By Channel for the sequence. I didn't see this issue when using ACEScct.

Mechanism concern:

We can have individual sequence based color management which makes sense for different deliverables and it's good to have that flexibility. But it also feels like a structural problem that there is no global management present. Colormanagement per production/project in almost all cases isn't something you decide per sequence. Would it not be better to have project based color management instead, then subsequently all sequence settings will inherit the project's settings by default unless overwritten. This would enable the entire project to be managed in a consistent manner and globally changed if needed. 

Here's a mockup of what that could look like:

[R Neil Haugen]

Interesting post ... and I like your suggestion.

[Dominique30138412td6v]

Shebbe, I completely agree. I think this is what I was also confused at first. We need a project wide management system!

Thanks

[Alexis Van Hurkman]

@Shebbe We opted for sequence-based color management in order that people with multiple deliverables would be able to have HDR and SDR versions of timelines within the same project. My expereience with other applications that had project-wide color management was that managing multiple projects for multiple deliverables was a drag. Given the schedule, we only had time for one approach, and while I'm not closing the door on someday having project-wide color management with the ability to override individual sequences, the traditional Premiere Pro approach for these things has been to allow sequence specificity, so we're continuing in that spirit for the moment.

Incidentally, the Source monitor color management is now governed by new settings we've added in the Monitor Color Management drop-down. The new default is "Gang to Active Sequence Color Management," so that the source monitor shows clips previewing how they'll look when edited into the currently selected sequence. Whichever sequence is currently in focus, that's the color management that will be used to preview clips in the Source monitor, so this is flexible for people creating multiple deliverables. Additional options include "Show Wide Gamut Source Media as Log," which we introduced previously that shows wide gamut media as a low-contrast log preview, giving you an "unmanaged" look at a log signal (while presenting Rec.709 media normally). Meanwhile, "Show Source in Extended Dyname Range" is the original behavior of the source monitor, where clips are simply shown as is, and wide dynamic range media will be clipped if your display cannot show extended dynamic range, or will appear "HDR-ish" if you have dynamic range. You now have your choice of how you'd like wide gamut clips to be represented.

 

[Alan Scott @Mystic360VR]

i would like to start by saying I feel bad I haven't had enough projects to try out more features. And that all changed recently and now I need to explore the entire new camera raw/log color system.  Just jumped into color systems and LOG and now I can learn and grow with it. I'm so excited.

[Shebbe]

Some feedback about the UI.

From an empty project draggin a clip to the timeline panel to create a new timeline with the Advanced options closed, opening that section messes up positioning of Sequence Clip section causing overlaps.

Switching the whole tab back and forth fixes it due to redraw/refresh.

Then subsequently, closing Advanced section again and jumping from Direct Rec.709 to Wide Gamut Tone Mapped, then opening Advanced section again causes another smaller shift in the listing at the Sequence Clip section.

[Mike_Abbott]

I've recently been looking at the new colour management system, and along the way have noted a few points I'd like to raise. If any of these display 'operator error' on my part I'm sure you'll let me know : )

1. I appreciate the the new system is 'sequence centric', but I think an option to set program level default colour management settings is needed.
I have clients using a wide variety of footage types, frames sizes and frame rates on an ad-hoc basis, so they make sequences as required - but want them all to be Wide gamut (tone mapped) with Rec709 output.
They'd like to make that colour management setting the default for all sequences - rather than having to remember to set it for each on creation.

2. Having set a sequence to use non-default colour management - eg: Wide gamut (tonemapped), In the case of a 'clip mismatch' warning - with 'change sequence settings' chosen - the sequence reverts back to the colour management defaults of Direct Rec709. I've always thought of 'clip mismatch' as a frame size and frame rate issue only, so I don't think it should be making a change to the colour management setting.

3. More of a question: Is it possible to easily identify media that has not been auto recognised by the system?

On a more general note: I'm seeing a lot of footage that is not being 'auto recognised' - that I think should be.

Kind regards to all.

[R Neil Haugen]

1) Having a project wide setup, that allowed for changes per sequence, would be a big help.

At the moment, they seem "sticky" ... so if you set it up as X down the line, next one will have the same settings. Which is fine. Normally.

But then you need a Rec.709 sequence, duplicate it and make that one HLG. Now, as HLG is the last you selected, the next one seems to be HLG. So it takes constant vigilance to get what you want.

2) Well, you gotta add CM mismatch to your clip mismatch understandings now. They don't list them separately.

3) Good question! I don't know of any way that the program 'tells' you that.

[Alexis Van Hurkman]

@Mike_Abbott When making a new sequence based on selected media (for example dragging a clip into an empty timeline or selecting clips and choosing "New Sequence From Clip," the current behavior mirrors Premiere's previous behavior in basing the new sequence's Color Management preset on the format of the clip. Dragging a 709 clip creates a Direct Rec.709 sequence. Similarly, PQ clips create Direct PQ and HLG clips create Direct HLG. We've got users that feel strongly about keeping this behavior so this was our starting point.

HOWEVER, I've been exploring introducing a preference mechanism for allowing users to (a) choose a default Color Management preset that they always want to use from a drop-down, with a secondary option to (b) Match the preset to the input color space of selected media if possible (to allow the original behavior to take place). Would this be useful to you?

[Mike_Abbott]

@Alexis Van Hurkman  Alexis thanks for the response, and apologies for the delay in replying.
Short and sweet: Yes, I think a preference option as you propose would be a good solution, and one i'd certainly welcome.

On a related note - do you have any thoughts on my comments regarding 'Clip mismatch' changing colour management settings?  My experience (Premiere and AE trainer) would be that most users would not expect that to happen - but just a frame size / frame rate change.

[R Neil Haugen]

@Alexis Van Hurkman  ... a couple questions.

First, I'm still trying to grasp the precise color management color processing pipeline for RAW media with plugins, which do not use the built-in PrPro CM "recognition" process. Such as BlackMagic's BRAW and ProRes RAW ... among others.

I use a lot of BRAW in projects, and some PrRAW provided by others. I use the Autokroma BRAW Studio plugin, specifically.

From the BRAW plugins, I can choose all sorts of color spaces for the clip to be used in. 

How, and where in the pipeline, are the settings from the RAW plugins applied by Premiere?

Second, the Lumetri Curves tab Sat v Sat tool. Working with a BRAW clip, in an ACEScct working space, Rec.709 output, it seems bizarre.

No effect on moving anything in the right 75% of the curve panel if the left 25% is locked. And that left 25% seems to control all sat values at any level.

I've got to be missing something here. Explanation? @Shebbe ?

[Shebbe]

Raw files

Working with BRAW is easy I think. If you'd want to work in ACEScct working space you can set the raw decoder to that which is possible with BRAW. Then match it in the clip input color space. If you want to handle all color and display conversion from the BRAW file itself, leaving it tagged as Rec.709 in a Direct Rec.709 timeline isn't any different that you'd normally work with. But it would be good if Premiere Pro added BMD Film Gen5 and DaVinci Wide Gamut/Intermediate to the list.

For ProRes Raw, I've never worked with it but the same principle applies. If you can convert it to any of the log color spaces know to Premiere you can use that as a bridge to get it into ACEScct or display. Ideally you use the log space that was 'native' to the camera like SG3.cine/SLog3 if it was a Sony etc. Otherwise it could becomes an ambiguous mess.

Lumetri's vs curves

I believe Alexis mentioned ongoing work into Lumetri to make it more robuust in Color Space Aware context but not all aspects of it have been polished. What you're experiencing is the 'default' versus curves math operating on a log image which only holds a very low saturation in that state. The curves were never designed to get predictable results or fine control on such images. Even those of DVR suffer from the same principle.

It isn't super trivial to build more sophisticated tools and in the case of Lumetri, the range of usability is also incredibly limited by how the UI is presented to the user. It's tiny, fiddly and very basic by nature as it is not a real color grading environment.

The work Filmlight put in it's newer curve tools is quite inspiring. Perhaps we can get something slightly similar some day in Premiere, that would be quite cool.

https://youtu.be/tW4Ieih5LVI

[R Neil Haugen]

Shebbe,

Working with BRAW isn't a problem.

I want to know the process order under the hood for RAW plug-ins. Where do the plug-in things get processed ... before what? After what?

[Shebbe]

Ah I see, yea I saw your question on where source clip effects get processed in the chain. There's probably a simple way to test it and figure out but a reply from staff would be more practical.

[angeloi59395552]

Non ho trovato molto chiare le indicazioni per impostare i vari parametri o disabilitarli.

[Agrarvolution]

I just tried the new color settings and I love that there are finally better options to work with LOG video in Premiere.

But I somehow just can't get my colors / gamma to look like the DVR conversion at all.

This is converted with DVR - but the sky was darkened with the highlight slider. I'm not entirely happy with this one either, but it looks a lot better than the PPCM result.This is the conversion in Premiere Pro with the Nikon N-LOG media color space applied in the same sequence.

The sequence color space is rec709. I'm sure I'm doing something stupid / wrong here, but why can't i get the contrast to look "correct" or like it should look compared to DVR or the images I took on the same day.

If I apply about 90 on the contrast slider and use +1EV on the sequence setting it will look more similar but it still isn't quite there with more fiddeling.

These are the sequence settings, which are applied to the clip

But I feel like I'm doing something wrong here, because the gamma just doesnt seem correct.

Thank you for you help!

Afternote:

I mainly work on smaller commercial video projects, where it kinda doesn't matter how I create the video as long as the end results look good (and are done fast). So this missing featureset is what mainly held me back from recording everything in LOG formats and finally not have blown out skies (or without masking). Since working with LOG with input luts was always a major pain to get it look "correct".  

[Shebbe]

It is true that Premiere Pro's tone mapping does not have much of a preferential rendering and 'beefy' contrast going on compared to others but your DVR example looks quite 'overcooked' and I doubt it is a correct 'conversion'. Feels like a lot of contrast and saturation was added on top.

DaVinci uses a per channel style tone mapper by default. You can set Premiere's to "By Channel" to get a more similar look. You can try the Brightness & Contrast effect to add contrast if you feel like the range of Lumetri's sliders are too limiting. The brightness slider is the equivalent of Offset in DVR and contrast is the same as that of DVR too if "Use S-Curve for contrast" is disabled.

Keep in mind that the Shadows and Highlights sliders in DVR are spatial effects. Premiere/Lumetri do not have such operations in their grading tools.

Do you really think something is broken? What does DVR look like without any adjustment at all? Just fully disabled color management and a single CST node converting Rec.2020/N-Log to Rec.709/Gamma 2.4.

If it's still a big difference one of the two softwares may have a faulty N-Log transferfunction in place...