Avenir Next Font – Letter U

[Paul Wyrobek]

The letter U in the Avenir Next bold font (which installs with the Mac OS) has a problem that is showing up only when used in Adobe applications. Look at the letter U in this screenshot. It appears larger than it should All characters are the same size, no stroke, no scaling applied. This does not occur in any non-Adobe application. Is there a bug that needs to be fixed?

[Lukas Engqvist]

It could be the size you are viewing the font that affects it. Please confirm that the text is not converted to outlines in the case you are showing. If you convert a font to outlines you lose the font hinting which is the detailed instructions that tell the font to nudge an anchor point  to round up or to round down. It looks like the problem is both ways, the O seems to be rounded down and the height of the u too tall. What application is this? If the font Truetype or OTF ?

[Paul Wyrobek]

It is not the viewing size. It is not outlined. App is PhotoShop but it occurs in all Adobe CC. I'm aware sometimes fonts render on screen oddly in Acrobat. That is normal. They will print fine. What's happening here will not print fine. Font is the TrueType version that is installed with the Mac OS. I have obtained the OpenType version for testing purposes and it works perfectly fine. Workaround in place; problem solved you may think? Nope. A partner prefers to avoid use of any version of this font anymore because of this issue. I'm in this field for about 30 years. I've seen most everything. This is a problem with Adobe software conflicting with the font. I'd like to see a reply from an Adobe engineer. While I appreciate it, rank-and-file responses likely will not help here.

[CJS1953]

It's absolutely true, and quite bizarre. The problem with the lowercase u is most severe for me in Avenir Next Condensed. The font works as expected in MS Word, but is way too big in Adobe CC -- PS, Ill, and ID. I'm being forced to switch to something like Proxima Nova for a versatile condensed font.

[Daniel E Lane · Accepted solution]

Make sure you have the latest version of Photoshop installed as well as the latest updates to you Mac OS, because it seems the issue is fixed with the latest updates.

Top row is Anenir Next. Bottom is the condensed version

[CJS1953]

You are right. I was one release behind on ID and Ill and now the Avenir family is displaying as intended. Thanks!

[Daniel E Lane]

Glad to help!

[CJS1953]

I’d gladly click correct, but see no place to do that.

[MichelleB]

Hi There! I'm experiencing this issue also, and the suggested solution unfortunately didn't do the trick for me. My mac is up to date, my indesign is up to date. I've attempted to uninstall and reinstall the fonts. But my 'u' character continues to look this this: 

Any other suggestions would be super appreciated.

[kellip16335071]

I'm having the same issue. My Mac and InDesign are all up to date. I have the TrueType version of Avenir Next. I'm working on an email image for a client and the "U"s are all jacked up throughout. This won't be printed since it's an email image, so it has to look good.
Part of the image below. The "Y"s look off too! Frustrating! If anyone has a solution that would be great. Thanks!

[kellip16335071]

Hi Michelle, Just tried this workaround and it made a huge difference. Export your InDesign art at max resolution (3ooDPI), then open it in Photoshop and save for web at the size you need. Below is another screenshot of the same image from my earlier post using that method.

If you work in Illustrator, export for screens at 3X and open in Photoshop and save for web. It's an extra step, but at least your image will display nicely. 

[efficient_Beekeeper5F93]

I'm currently having this issue inside photoshop and inside illustrator. If I zoom up it won't happen. However I need to make an image with photoshop and the text has to be small. Seems to be an issue with Adobe. If the problem didn't exist when exporting it would be fine, but it does...

[stevehall]

This has been going on for quite a while through many versions of indesign. My printers, working from my PDFs, have no problem when they rip the PDF for printing.

Clients are a bit offput, but they calm down when you ask them to zoom in on the 'u'.  The problem disappears oddly enough.

[andy terechenok]

thank you for sharing. we are having the same issue.

[DSGoodwin]

I'm writing from 2021, and having the same problem. It crops up from time to time - specifically with this font an the "u". Sometimes it really does just seem like an issue with page magnification... but... I am beginning to think it's a feature. not a bug.
The "u" definitely looks bigger in ID20, as well as in JPEGs and PNGs exported from the document.

But it's not really any taller. I think it's just taller than expected, so the eye catches it - and I bet that Adobe's text rendering makes it look even large at different sizes.

 

This doesn't help me with a client complaining about it, though. (It's THEIR house font.) So I may have do a quick find-and-replace on the letter u to reduce the vertical height to 95% or so... sigh.

[fifthwheelfreight]

DSGoodwin, are you still having this issue? 

We're running into the same issue with 'y' and 'u' in Avenir Next, specifically on our website. 

Can someone help?

[Abambo]

It may as well be a design error of the font… And this doesn't help neither with your client...

[hadleyk78468788]

I am writing from 2024 and having this problem too!

I am on iMac Sonoma latest version, using the latest version of licensed Adobe products. Avenir Next Condensed.ttc is a Mac system font and cannot be deactivated, therefore I can't download a different .ttf or .otf version and try that. The system font is always the one used.

The lower case "u" in Avenir Next Condensed used in InDesign when saved to PDF has a higher X height than the other letters. When zoomed in to about 200% it looks normal.

I need to save the documents to PDF and they will be used as PDFs online most likely at 100%, they will not be printed and workarounds like saving to another program and then writing the PDF from there aren't an option. Adobe has told me the font is a restricted font in Adobe, therefore they can't offer any solutions.

Is there any feasible solution to this? This is my client's brand font and they are not happy about the way it looks.

[Abambo]

How is the font when you use it in Word or similar?

[hadleyk78468788]

Thanks for your reply! In Word it looks fine, but when exported to PDF from Word and viewed in Acrobat it is bad.  So the problem is with Acrobat. This is what Monotype told me as well.

Adobe has said that it is a restricted font and therefore, I guess, they aren't doing anything to alter this artefact.

Adobe suggested that I get a different version of the font (.ttf or .otf) and use that, but since Avenir Next Condensed is a Mac system font, I don't think I can override it or deactivate it. At least I don't know how....

[David27495045b7xq]

So this is a quick fix, but if you need to get a document out the door in a hurry...

In InDesign, I actually did a find-and-replace for lowercase "u" and styled the u to be 95% of its normal height. It's not a great solution, but it solved the problem on a one-time basis.

In general, I have only seen the issue appear sometimes - certain computers, certain screens, etc. So I don't consider it a critical issue unless the client asks... which sometimes they do.

[hadleyk78468788]

Thank you for your reply! Unfortunately, it will be many documents with constant updates and potentially viewers will be printing them, so that won't be a viable option. I wish I could do what you recommend and be done with it all! The client also wants to be able to make small text edits in the PDFs so I can't even outline the text and then export to PDF.

The client noticed the issue as well and the documents will be disseminated globally so there is no way to track what PDF viewer people will be viewing them in.  It is worse on low resolution screens and my feeling is that most people will be using PC laptops with lower resolutions than mine, so if I can see it, they certainly will.

[Bobby Henderson]

That problem with the Avenir Next typeface is very odd. I don't have a Mac, but do have an iPad Pro. The versions of Avenir and Avenir Next bundled into the iPadOS seem to be working properly in iPad versions of Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. No enlarged "u" characters. I bought the Avenir Next Pro family a few years ago to be able to use on Windows systems. The OTF and TTF files included in the retail package all work properly. The problem with Avenir Next appears to be something confined to the build version bundled into MacOSX.

[hadleyk78468788]

Yes, it seems to be that Adobe Acrobat can't render the Mac .ttc system font letter "u" correctly at 200% and lower. Sometimes it is also a problem in InDesign. Odd, but true! And since I can't override the Mac system font and use a .ttf or .otf font, it will always be a problem.

[Bobby Henderson]

One alternative would be buying a license of Avenir Next Pro and using the OTF files. But, wow, the retail package is ridiculously expensive, $999. I bought it on sale for $100 at MyFonts.com; at that time the full price was $400. Monotype now owns the MyFonts store (along with Fonts.com, FontShop, etc). I could be wrong, but I think the sell-thru price on fonts is getting hiked just to steer customers to Monotype's subscription service ($199 per year for access to 150,000 fonts).