James Gifford—NitroPress
Community Expert
James Gifford—NitroPress
Community Expert
Activity
10 hours ago
1 Upvote
You shouldn't have to create a separate document for the TOC. For one thing, a TOC in the e-book itself can be seen as something of an anachronism; some authors like them, and I believe they have their place in dense, technical books where a TOC acts in part as a secondary index. But for your basic ten-chapter novel or narrative or the like... omit it from the visible pages. The dynamic EPUB/Kindle/reader TOC is much more useful and accessible.
If you do put the TOC in the pages, it's best to create one style for it and another for the dynamic TOC, just so you can fine-tune each for its purpose. And when you do, just put the TOC frame in the usual place among the front matter... but be sure to anchor it to prior text such as the title or copyright notice, otherwise the text will just "fall" to the bottom of the document. (The styling of the TOC can also be problematic; some readers insist on ugly blue-underline links no matter what styles you apply to them.)
If you don't place a visible TOC, you don't need to place the TOC frame at all. (I do a suspenders-and-belt move of placing the loaded cursor each time I get it, then deleting the result... just to make sure the process is completed. Probably voodoo, though.)
But as for the dynamic TOC — it looks as if you have it correct. Export using MultiLevel/TOC and select that TOC style name to go with it. That should give you a working, reader-level, dynamic TOC.
And then we can move on to any next problems. 🙂
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11 hours ago
I did, David. When the esteemed expert and I first clashed, a few weeks ago, I sent a long and humorous DM suggesting we could restart and be of mutual advantage to this forum. Her reply: "I don't have time to read that sh*t."
I have not engaged her once, since; I have made complimentary references to the suggestions she's made that I feel are in line with this forum and its users' needs.
She has, in fact, basically followed me around to dump on my answers (which come from a completely different perspective on the field) and call me names — mostly in ignorance and contradiction to what I've actually said or written. Her answers are either stratospheric code-tech, often incomprehensible to the workaday ID user, or (as above) that of a weak journeyman ID user, misleading where not simply unhelpful.
I'm as tired of this BS as everyone, but I will not be stalked, badmouthed, namecalled and have appropriate technical discussions derailed by someone who can't comprehend that not every EPUB author sleeps with a copy of the standard under their pillow.
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12 hours ago
Your screenshot above carefully presents and highlights a setting that is completely irrelevant to useful export or this conversation.
I remind you again, gently, that this is the InDesign forum, mostly populated by ID users who want to get their project done, and not acolytes avidly absorbing this week's micro-changes to the grossly outdated and contradictory EPUB standard. Deeply technical answers about standards and editing in Sigil aren't of much use to this audience, and nor are flatly off-target answers about ID.
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13 hours ago
To sort of extend Frans' succinct and correct suggestion, most clients have no idea what formats work in what situations, or how. They saw something here, got an example of something there, were told in a seminar or airplane book that this is a wizard technique... but often don't really understand what they're asking for at this level.
Interactive docs are much, much more difficult than their prevalence and inclusion of tools for in apps would suggest. It all comes down to having a working platform or host for them. None work by themselves. You either write a standalone app that fully contains all the code and logic for interactivity, or you write a "doc" of some kind that keys into the features of a platform like a browser, reader, email client or the like. And there is no universal format or platform.
That your client wants a PDF probably indicates they think it's a more universal platform than it actually is. The truth is that PDF splintered long ago and is a standard without a keeper. Beyond simple flat-page docs with a few links, it's wholly dependent on readers, and the readers built into mobile devices, browsers and email clients are greatly inferior to desktop apps... and most desktop apps that aren't Adobe Acrobat are inferior in their own ways. (Most are built and sold on the idea that they're smaller, faster, cheaper/free, or just "not Adobe." That and kewl features overtake things like full compliance with the standards.)
So if your client wants a PDF with interactive features, fine. Make sure they know it will work reliably ONLY on a desktop version of Acrobat. They won't be able to put it on their website, email it to clients or otherwise scatter it to the winds... and they will not get any points from clients or the like by insisting the latter use Acrobat. Few people outside this field understand ANY of the above, and all of the diss and dislike PDF has gotten over the last decade traces directly to the lack of understanding that it's not a well-managed standard, and problems are rarely the fault of the format, Adobe or genuine Acrobat.
I'd back up to the client to find out exactly what they want here, in functional/field/use terms, and then work backward to a solution that meets the technical/distribution needs, which likely fall outside the generic notion of "everybody can open a PDF and use interactive features."
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13 hours ago
There's too much to unpack and figure out here, so let's start with some simple, basic changes.
Rename all your styles to NOT begin with a number. As Laura Brady points out, it's somewhere between bad practice, confusing and technically faulty to export style names to HTML/EPUB with number-led style names.
Delete all your TOC definitions and any existing TOC you've generated.
Create a TOC-entry style, a simple one based on your Body text.
Create a new TOC 'style' using just that one heading style. It looks as if you've done everything else pretty much right, but be sure not to specify page numbers. Assign the TOC-entry style to it. (One not-uncommon mistake is to use the same style for the TOC entries as for the TOC targets, creating a loop in which the TOC lists its own entries as further entries... make sure the styles are sorted out for this!)
Be sure to save the TOC style under a defined name (Just "EPUB" is good enough.) But be sure to save this style every time you open the TOC panel for any further changes — TOC has a maddening glitch in that changes are used once and once only, to generate the next/current TOC, and then lost afterwards, unless you save the 'style' BEFORE you exit or generate the next TOC iteration.
In EPUB export, be sure to use Multi-Level TOC and specify your named TOC style. (If there's one error that jumps out here, it looks as if you have a named TOC style but then leave the export at [Default], which is both a fault in itself and a fault of using ANY InDesign default setting or style, ever.)
That should clear up the TOC issues.
As for EPUB errors... I deprecate the use of all legacy EPUB tools (and post-export modifications) and most things like validation for InDesign-generated EPUBs, and most flags, warnings, errors and hassles are more rooted in... useless fussiness than actual faults. The only truly valid passage is Export, review in a vanilla EPUB reader like Calibre or Thorium, and then upload to a sales portal such as KDP or Apple. There may be further steps generated by those checks, but in general if a book passes that simple road, fussy bits over this setting and that setting are irrelvant to real-world use.
(There is a monumental shift going on in the name of accessibility that is causing endless problems with validation and acceptance as the various players take their time about updating their standards in step with each other; if you're deeply concerned about accessibility and perfect validation, you have both a hard road to hoe and will have to use processes different from simple InDesign export. But, by and large, warnings about this jot or tittle or detail or setting do not get in the way of simple commercial production, upload and sale.)
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Mar 07, 2025
05:47 PM
Is there a GREP or nested/line style set in the Paragraph Style? Looks like something that kicks in on first word or after a colon.
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Mar 07, 2025
04:51 PM
Basically, nope. Between Adobe and Microsoft and globalization whether we want/use it or not, we get full sets of fonts for languages most of us will never see, much less use.
The workaround is to Favorite the fonts you use and show that filtered list. It's... imperfect.
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Mar 07, 2025
04:27 PM
Yes, periods and other special/reseved characters have been allowed (mostly) on most OSes and most network protocols, but they can still cause enough confusion that it's best to avoid them. Not every combination of system, OS, network protocol and remote device understands every case where "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
But it doesn't appear to have anything to do with this case. Next time... 🙂
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Mar 07, 2025
11:54 AM
Don't use periods in file names. Substitute an underscore or just make it 'v12' so as not to create file path problems.
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Community Expert
in InDesign Discussions
Mar 06, 2025
07:08 PM
1 Upvote
Mar 06, 2025
07:08 PM
1 Upvote
@Admirable_Skyline5E98 Are you referring to InDesign? If so, what version?
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Mar 06, 2025
09:17 AM
What platform/reader did you use to test it? With few exceptions, interactive PDF features work on desktop Acrobat and nowhere else. Functionality on browser and mobile readers is minimal.
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Community Expert
in InDesign Discussions
Mar 05, 2025
03:09 PM
1 Upvote
Mar 05, 2025
03:09 PM
1 Upvote
This is one reason numbering is usually done as a separate step for things like tickets. You print using a single efficient process, then run them through a numbering machine or press. Check with your printer to see if that's an option.
Are you really going to print some 500 unique sheets to get individual numbering? That's terribly inefficient.
And laying out the tix so that they each have trim or crop marks? Not really how it's done — the cut-down should be done with precision shearing, not by following printed markers.
It sounds as if you have not talked to the actual printer/bindery shop. You should.
Feel free to add details about your project/needs and ask any further questions. I suspect the solution lies in a different direction overall from what you're envisioning.
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Mar 05, 2025
02:53 PM
Many things get odd when you try to work with the various [default] styles and settings. I suspect this is a case where for whatever mysterious reasons, ID isn't seeing [Black] as, well, black.
I do note that your search seems to be for a color named Black (no brackets); in a quick test, searching for default [Black] is a different selection.
ETA: either my eyes or the screen shot changed - never mind on that last.
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Community Expert
in InDesign Discussions
Mar 05, 2025
02:39 PM
1 Upvote
Mar 05, 2025
02:39 PM
1 Upvote
That works and is the basic way to restart numbering as needed, but it's kind of a sloppy override, like spot text formatting, and should be avoided in all but the simplest one-shot documents. It can't be "managed" in any way except by direct modification of that paragraph's style and overrides.
Consider two things that are sort of skimmed over in this thread:
Create a named list for each style and type/instance of list, rather than assigning all lists to one name or (worse/never!) just the [default] list numbering style. Naming each list type allows separate configuration and more control as the list is used across multiple instances in a document.
Use the NUMBERED and NUMBERED-1 style pair for each list type, with a child style that resets the numbering to 1 in a clean and controlled fashion rather than a local override. This gives maximum control of list formatting at the very minor expense of managing that child style.
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Community Expert
in InDesign Discussions
Mar 05, 2025
12:54 PM
1 Upvote
Mar 05, 2025
12:54 PM
1 Upvote
I don't believe it's a controllable setting; KP/KDP judges whether the book supports enhanced typesetting and manages things from there. That's the case with many of their system/reader's internal settings and options
That said, like many if not most KDP error messages, the real problem is likely anything but "enhanced typesetting" directly. It can be nearly impossible to sort out what a particular error "means" or what fix is needed to resolve it. You have to keep in mind that EPUB is only an intermediate format for Kindle and few rules about EPUB formatting etc. carry over to their proprietary and completely closed format.
I don't think I've ever seen the error you quote. I'd suspect the actual problem is something fairly fundamental with your source/export file, but figuring out what could be... challenging.
However... my copy of KP opened the book without delay or problem. You may try simply uploading it to the listing to see if the "real" conversion has any problem with it. Beyond that, make sure your copy of KP is updated; they do change it often. My current version under Win 11 is 3.89.0.
ETA: And, on exit, I'm told there is an update to v3.91.0, which can't be more than a week old. And it also opens your file fine.
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Mar 04, 2025
04:34 PM
Under Windows, ID usually only references fonts that are installed at a system level. Macs, as I understand it, work or can work from an auxiliary font folder that's part of the CC installation — I'm hazy on the details but have seen a number of threads where installing a font on the MacOS system doesn't correctly show up in an InDesign doc.
I don't know that ID will even look for local fonts under Windows; maybe. But I'd make sure those fonts are correctly installed at the system level, through the Windows Fonts app or a good font manager, and see if the doc will then tolerate having them moved away.
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Mar 04, 2025
11:36 AM
Happy to help. And yes, the online world for e-book publishing is... a swamp. I'll stop with that polite term.
This is not something you're going to be able to just jump ahead with — to start with, InDesign is a fairly complex tool with a steep initial learning curve, and that's for simple print documents. To lay out a document correctly for EPUB export is another level above that. Jumping forward to specific resolution tests using different methods etc. is... probably not helpful.
InDesign can export with graphics resolutions up to anything you choose — 300ppi is standard, 150ppi is common for less demanding books, and if you want to go to 600ppi or even 1200ppi, it's supported. I don't think there is any hurdle to getting clear renderings of your symbols, but you do have to keep in mind that EPUB readers may have hardware/display limitations that don't support ultra-res images.
To back up to some basics, yes, you can subscribe to ID for a month at a time, but it's fairly costly that way and it imposes a limit on getting from start to a final finish in 30 or 60 days, which might not be reasonable. I don't have any good answer for that one except to expect the whole process to take time, certainly more than one month.
I suspect you will have to/recommend that you rebuild the book from scratch in InDesign, though. Just cutting and pasting text into frames is not a good practice (for any end format) and is contrary to the need of a reflowable EPUB export to come from a single, connected text flow. (There are exceptions, but that's yet another level above the basics.) So you need to get your entire text content into one text flow in ID, then insert your symbols using the anchored frame feature, then format all the content as desired. The basics on this take some time; getting a consistent result that will export as desired will take more.
I can't think of any especially streamlined way to get from a Publisher or Pages document to an InDesign one, and you're likely to have to do some cleanup and reformatting even with the best case (a "perfect" file in either).
So:
You're best off considering this all as a wholly new project, to be developed and assembled in ID. Prior versions in any form are not going to be much of a jump start.
You'll need to come up to speed with InDesign's basic layout and formatting methods and features, which can be a challenge if your experience is with more "accommodating" apps like Word, Pages and even Affinity Publisher.
Your symbols will have to be inserted in place using an InDesign feature that does not readily import from other apps or doc formats. But there should be no issue with getting good resolution from them, all limitations of EPUB readers etc. considered.
You're going to need access to InDesign for not just the whole project, but probably for touchups down the road. You'll have ot consider whether the subscription cost is worth it for your goals.
...all I can think of off the top of my head. Any further thoughts or questions, fire away. 🙂
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Mar 04, 2025
11:19 AM
I don't have any clearer explanations left to share. You don't seem to grasp that there are two completely separate settings involved. What I and others have described here, repeatedly, works perfectly and with just a few settings... if you follow the instructions.
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Mar 04, 2025
11:12 AM
You need one inch (or whatever) before the FIRST paragraph inside the border, not all of them. That creates the space above, between it and the prior paragraph, for the border to be expanded.
THEN you extend the border spacing using the Offset value.
This will not work at a page top unless you take other steps; the border will push up into the top margin.
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Mar 04, 2025
09:32 AM
Copy and paste is a frustrating option with InDesign. Sometimes it works perfectly; other times it does bizarre things with the content. (And that''s with text; cut/pasting graphics has a whole list of issues of its own.)
The best solution to "pasting" text from another source where a simple cut from Word (or whatever) into ID doesn't work is to actually import, Place, the source file and then cut and paste from that. Use a separate, temporary text frame in your working document, or a "junk" document in which you can Place files, clip what you want, and then delete all the content for the next round.
I just did a quick test and a table imported well to a new ID doc, ready for cutting and pasting into a working doc. You can extend this process and streamline the workflow by assigning styles in Word that are mirrored in your working and/or temp doc, and make sure to enable the file import menu when you Place the doc, to check and adjust the style mapping. Using all those features should greatly speed and smooth the process of dragging content into your ID project.
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Mar 04, 2025
09:26 AM
EPUB supports only JPEG, PNG and GIF, and all other formats will be converted to one of those. (InDesign has both an "automatic" mode that lets it select a format, and fixed selections so that all graphics are, for example, converted to PNG.)
In general, conversion of graphics is reliable and accurate. There are many issues that will control (or mess up!) size, placement, alignment etc. EPUB export is not like PDF and does not, as a rule, create a perfect result from a print layout.
Happy to answer questions and help guide you, but to start with: I'd recommend strongly against using fixed-page (FXL) EPUB format — no, it's not the equivalent of PDF or the "easy" option! — and don't ever convert any graphics to GIF in the process. Short reasons: both are completly obsolete formats with many problems.
How do you plan to get a Publisher file to InDesign, though?
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Mar 04, 2025
08:45 AM
Yes, the short answer would be "learn how to use ID's datamerge function, preferably before you engage a project that would make one of the experts here have to pause and think through the workflow." (s) Zathras.
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Mar 04, 2025
08:32 AM
Okay. Well, all this begs many questions, but if you have a handle on your needs and workflow we can leave it at that.
You can put a feature request in the Adobe InDesign: Feature Requests forum, where it will be voted up/endorsed by other users and eventually come to the attention of the developers. I wouldn't pause your production schedule waiting for the change, though. Changes tend to be made slowly, deliberately and in something like order of need and usefulness, and unless there's a huge rush of endorsing votes, this one isn't going to get very high on the list.
(For one thing, I suspect you're underestimating the amount of work and testing required; just because doing a crummy job of rasterizing a first page as a pseudo-cover exists, it doesn't necessarily mean it can be extended to a full-document option.)
As for the 'graphic novel industry,' you're in a very small minority that uses InDesign, at least in my experience and knowledge. GNs are one of the niches that still rely on the EPUB-builder tools of a decade back, because they simply do a better job with FXL EPUB and don't have InDesign's faults and limitations with that export format. If ID is the right composition tool for you, and you can't get compliant PDFs, I'd suggest exporting to PNG as you're doing... but then using these more focused tools — note I don't say "better," but they are specific to the task — to assemble and configure the final result. ID is... just not the right tool for FXL, at all.
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Mar 04, 2025
08:22 AM
You have to push the text DOWN to make room for your elevated border. Then you push the border UP to where you want it. (There is no single setting that does this.)
So your top bullet has to have, say, 1 inch of space above it. Then you have about an inch to push the border up, using the Rule or Border Offset setting. Note that this will become another problem when your bullet/border falls at the top of a page; you have to configure the border — using Paragraph Rule, not Border — to respect the top text frame margin.
These are all fairly basic elements of understanding in formatting text in InDesign. You are plowing a hard road by trying to implement complex combinations of formatting without an adequate understanding of how each setting and feature works. As in this case, it takes several rounds to even ask a question that has a sensible answer. I repeat the not infrequent suggestion that you spend some time on tutorials to learn all the basics before you dive any further into trying to combine them into complex layouts. You'll waste less time, get results you want, and at the least be able to ask more focused questions using clear terminology so that any answers will address what you're trying to do, not random guesses at your goals.
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Mar 04, 2025
08:12 AM
That points to what's locking the file, then, at least in most cases. Look to a solution with the configuration of Acrobat and how it accesses files on your network, rather than focusing on InDesign. Or so it seems to me.
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Mar 03, 2025
03:20 PM
First, this isn't a forum for Express... it's for InDesign. I am not sure how much overlap there is to make answers here meaningful. But for ID in general...
Use guides. On the Parent page if need be, or set numerically on each document page. Or, just set them up numeically in the first place and copy the numbers from one to the other.
I am not sure you can do any kind of alignment across pages, and Paste in Place only works between matching page types (left to left, right to right).
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Mar 03, 2025
03:15 PM
Okay — sorry about the horse thing. It's just that there's widespread misunderstanding about QR codes out there and that misinformation often makes it difficult to get to any related issue or solution, so I tend to, er, flog it a bit. (You also keep mentioning it in context of the problem.) But okay, we're on the same page of Horse Monthly there.
That this should be a very simple process puzzles me. That there are very few reasons a link would go sideways as you describe it is even more puzzling — the three options are usually Works, Doesn't Work, or Works Badly (usually because of a badly translated character in the string, or something). Going to some random third site is... not normally seen.
That the sample file had no URL link assigned to any part of that upper corner structure is another puzzle. Not sure if it got deleted in creating a shorter file, or if there's something simple being overlooked here. I'd take apart that sorta-complicated graphics structure, leave it all ungrouped, make sure the QR code frame is on top, and make sure the URL shows as being validly assigned to the graphics frame. Or, even, delete the darned QR code just to make sure there's no phantom linkage involved. Put in a picture of your cat or dog or iguana instead and attach the link to that.
Can't think of any other approaches to try. 😛
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Mar 03, 2025
12:32 PM
As noted, there seems to be a spike in little network glitches like this; it may be a fault of v2025. A perfectly normal workflow, though.
Did you try the loop without opening the generated PDF first? That would at least remove Acrobat from the loop, or point towards any role it might be playing. (If it went that direction on a Windows system, I'd open Task Manager and kill all the Acrobat processes, just to see if that released the lock.)
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Mar 03, 2025
12:25 PM
It's like the template's QR Code link has somehow embedded itself.
Not to keep pounding on a dead equine, but — there is no connection between the QR code at any level (ID profile as used by the editor, generated graphic code, contaniner, anything) and any clickable link you might assign to it in the layout. None. For export to PDF, it's just a a graphic image. And the only unusual thing inside the layout is that ID retains the data separately for editing and update — but does so in such a convoluted way it's brought strong Experts here to tears. 🙂
The problem with the click link is entirely a fault of how and where it's assigned in the overall document structure — mostly, to what element, and things like content/frame, and grouping, and the like can all play a part. But not that the object is a QR code graphic.
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Mar 03, 2025
12:15 PM
What are you selecting to assign the link to, in the layout? The graphic or its frame? Try the latter.
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