Choppy H264 playback - hard drive speed or connection?

[KazuTa]

1.) I edit on a MacBook Early 2015 with a 2.7 GHz Intel i5. H264 files sometimes play back choppy.

In buying a new external hard drive, would any of these factors help with the choppy playback:

A.) Thunderbolt 2?

B.) 7200 rpm vs 5400 rpm?

Or is the issue primarily with my GPU? Would the best solution be an external GPU or a new computer?

2.) When I import HLS H264 video, it's definitely choppy. Do newer computers play back HLS smoothly? Or is the only solution to convert in Shutter Encoder or Handbrake?

[Ann Bens]

Your solution is to transcode to an edit friendly codec.

[KazuTa]

It's for personal use, not for professional work, and the files are over 40 mins long; so it's much easier (and takes up far less disk space) to link to the original H264 rather than to transcode.

Since I'm buying a new, non-SSD external hard drive, would the connection to the hard drive (ex. Thunderbolt 2 rather than USB 3.0) play a significant factor in my computer being able to read these files more quickly? I'm guessing these factors would be negligable, compared to CPU, GPU, and RAM, or using an SSD drive?

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi KazuTa,

Sorry. Are these files from a camera? If not, you probably need to transcode them if they are containing a variable frame rate. These "VFR" clips are most likely the case if you downloaded them or if they came from a program like OBS.

If you can verify that these are constant frame rate files using shareware MediaInfo (tree view), then we can troubleshoot further. If not, try transcoding to H.264 or an editing codec in Shutter Encoder. You can always delete the files later. 

Macs from 2015 probably are not meeting system requirements in the CPU and GPU department, so transcoding is a pretty normal thing to do anyway. I don't think the hard drive setup will help nearly as much. Good system maintenance can also help. Be sure to delete media cache from the Libary on the Mac between major updates.

Thanks,

Kevin

[KazuTa]

They aren't camera files, but they are not variable frame rate. They're constant frame rate.

I'm guessing the choppiness issue is more from my old laptop's CPU / GPU / RAM limitations.

However, would a Thunderbolt 2 external hard drive help in any way? I'm guessing not?

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi KazuTa,

Hmm, OK. As long as you can verify that these are not oddball VFR clips, then fine. Fast hard drives have always played an important role in overall NLE performance. I have a Thunderbolt 2 2 bay drive that works well with my 2017 MacBook Pro. I have it striped as RAID 1. These disks are 7200 RPM disks, which are the recommended ones. I can scrub, playback, and edit 4K HEVC without serious issues. I prefer ProRes LT files to edit with, given the preference. Performance is better with those files and my Mac. 

About every 5 years, you should plan on updating your hardware. It sounds like you are at that point in time where the demands of the software are higher than the hardware you have. Since that is the case, you have to make certain concessions. In your situation, do the best you can (yes to fast hard drives) with what you have control over.

Adjusting the format to an easier codec for the computer to handle is one of those key things you can try to make your performance better that you do have control over. Your CPU probably does have QuickSync for H.264 handling, so that is one thing you have going for you, but you don't have much control over CPU since it cannot be swapped out - that means a new computer if you are Mac laptop person.

Thanks,
Kevin

[KazuTa]

Yeah, I've been waiting for Apple to release their new, larger-screen iMac. It was supposed to happen last year, but maybe it will happen this year. My Late 2015 MacBook Pro is so out of date that it's fat - constant overheating from processing H264 for Premiere playback.

Of course, if this was professional work, I would transcode the footage to a more edit-friendly codec.

I think the main issue is CPU / GPU / RAM. I'm trying to get new external hard drives that won't bottleneck the performance of the new, larger screen iMac (when it comes out).

I'm not dealing with super beefy files: mostly 1080, some UHD which is max 20 Mbps, no multicam.

The two external hard drives I'm looking at are both 5200 rpm (I'd prefer a bus-powered drive). The main difference is one has Thunderbolt 2 while the other has USB 3.1 Gen 1 (5 Mbps).

I'm guessing that Thunderbolt 2 vs. USB 3.1 Gen 1 won't make a huge difference, H264 playback-wise, when I get the new iMac?

[Kevin-Monahan]

KazuTa,

I was in a similar situation trying to run modern versions of Premiere Pro on a 2013 MacBook Pro. It became a bridge too far for 4K work. It took a lot of workarounds, transcoding, smart rendering - basically all the tricks in the book to get an output. It was too much for me, too much time wasting.

The 2017 machine was a far better machine for 4K, but even this one is getting long in the tooth now - after all I'm hitting that 5 year "wall." My supe bought me a brand new M1 MacBook Pro, but I've barely cracked it open except for testing. Waiting for Adobe to say it's OK to use (might be OK by now) for official support.

Of course, if this was professional work, I would transcode the footage to a more edit-friendly codec.

I transcode for my own projects for a variety of reasons. One of which would be better performance on lower level machines.

The two external hard drives I'm looking at are both 5200 rpm (I'd prefer a bus-powered drive).

New machines are Thunderbolt 4, I believe. Having a fast media drive is an integral part of any decent NLE system. I'm not really down with those that operate everything on a single drive. Personally, I would advise against anything but 7200rpm media drives, if they are spinning disks. That's an editor's rule of thumb, especially if you are concerned about maximizing performance.

Thanks,
Kevin

[KazuTa]

Thanks Kevin!

[Andy 1968]

On the Mac side you should be able to download iStats to see if the CPU or hard drive is getting pegged at 100%. That being said H.264 does not require much throughput from the hard drive. My guess is the CPU is being pegged at 100%. Can you try playing back the video at 1/4 resolution? 

[KazuTa]

So, in buying a new external hard drive, the connection (Thunderbolt 2 vs USB 3.0) shouldn't make a difference in H264 choppy playback, should it?

[Andy 1968]

A new hard drive will probably not help. If it were Pro Res, BRAW or uncompressed the hard drive might get pegged at 100% but I doubt your H.264 is maxing out the HD. As I stated you can get iStats to checkout your systems performance.  Maybe your hard drive is the weakest link but my guess would be the CPU. 

[KazuTa]

Since I am buying a new external hard drive, would the connection to the drive affect H264 choppyness (ex. Thunderbolt 2 versus USB 3.0)?

I ran Activity Monitor. It looks like the CPU is 100%+ when playing back H264 in Premiere.

[Andy 1968]

What are the stats for your current hard drive? Thunderbolt has more throughput than USB but with H.264 I doubt you will see a big difference.  Keep in mind some of the USB external drives are mechanical not SSD.

[KazuTa]

My current HD is a WD Elements, 4TB, USB 3.0. (5400 rpm)

The ones I'm looking at are:

Lacie Rugged USB-C, 5TB, USB 3.1 Gen 1 (5400 rpm), 130MB/s

Lacie Rugged Mini, 5TB, Thunderbolt 2 (5400 rpm), 130MB/s

[Andy 1968]

I imagine you are using an internal laptop mechanical hard drive. What are the read and write speeds? 130 MBPS should be fast enough for 4K H.264 but it does not hurt to configure a RAID array or use an SSD. Having sad that I use an old school mechanical hard drive to edit 4K h.264. 

[KazuTa]

I'm not using my laptop's internal drive. The video files and project files are on an external hard drive. I'm buying a new external hard drive, but it won't be SSD or RAID. Would Thunderbolt 2 make much of a difference? I'm guessing the issue is not throughput; but trying to get some guidance here.

[Andy 1968]

If you edit H.264 you proably will not see any difference. Pro Res, R3D, uncompressed and BRAW all need a lot of throughput. 

[KazuTa]

Wow, very helpful info, thanks Andy!

[Andy 1968]

You are weclome. 

[Warren Heaton]

Transcode to Apple ProRes 422 Proxy.

Create new Sequences from one of the Apple ProRes 422 Proxy clips.

Make sure the Sequence Video Previews are also set to QuickTime Apple ProRes 422 Proxy.

Expoert to QuickTime Apple ProRes 422 Proxy.

Transcode the ProRes 422 Proxy to H264 or HEVC H265 Adobe Media Encoder.

Or...

Use the Premiere Pro Proxy workflow and create 1280-by-720 Apple ProRes 422 Proxy clips.  Full Resolution exports will be slow, but editing in Proxy mode will be faster.

[Baffy19]

I'm sorry, do you understand how many incompetent actions a user must perform in order to correctly reproduce his material in a professional product? You understand what you are talking about and your actions scare away users. Imagine the situation, you have a big project. People have chosen your advertised product and are aiming to deliver the project on time. But not here. You need to do the actions described by you first, and only after hours or days, depending on the complexity of the project, a person exhausted by the fate of the product thinks how much more time he will need. Media playback on the timeline is the basis from which to start and solve in the near future. Users should not feel uncomfortable playing their material on the timeline. They trusted you. Please do it

[Warren Heaton]

For the entire history of digital video, there have been acquisition CODECs, editing CODECs and delivery CODECs.

H264 and H265 have never been editing CODECs.

Any of the CODECs that are supported for  Premiere Pro's Smart Rendering are editing CODECs.

For example, ProRes is a Smart Rendering CODEC.  If you shoot ProRes and edit ProRes, you're working really, really quickly.

One of the reasons Avid Media Composer is the most used NLE in feature film work and broadcast is that it forces any footage imported to be Avid DNx upon import if it isn't already.  Media Composer does have an option to bypass this (Avid Media Acces), but almost no one uses it becsuse it means a potential loss of speed and efficiency.  While Premiere Pro doesn't force that, the same speed and efficiency can be utilized simply if the user chooses to do it.  You may notice that DNx is also a Smart Rendering CODEC.

Premiere Pro could use a "Pro Mode" where we check either ProRes or DNx and it handles making sure everything is ProRes or DNx for us - it would be very Avid like.

You can switch to something else like Avid, Final Cut Pro, Resolve; however, you'll have to pick a CODEC that's good for editing (we're back to ProRes, DNx, or Blackmagic) for the Timeline even if you have imported H264 or H265. 

Computers and mobile devices (in particular, iPads and iPhones) are getting extremely powerful and have decated featues to make processing delivery CODECs much, much faster (both for compression and decompression).  That does not magically turn a delivery CODEC into an editing CODEC.

[Baffy19]

I am grateful for the clarifications. I understand this process with codecs. There is for viewing, and there is for editing. We need to strive to keep up with the times. Technology does not sleep. And if we doze off, we'll miss everything. This is not the best editing process. The forum is full of messages about the inability not to edit, but simply to view the material in the viewing window. That's what I mean. Improve the product

[Andy 1968]

Baffy19,

Premiere Pro does support hardware encoding and decoding for some flavors of H.264 but not all. In order for it to work you need a computer made within the last five years . Having said that we were told Premiere Pro will soon support more flavors of H.264/265.