Are there any and what are the advantages of Premiere over DaVinci Resolve?

[Takeone.Digital]

I have accumulated about 500 hours of editing on three different softwares including Adobe Primere in which I underwent 60 hours of training. Until now I edited as a hobbyist but the business I am establishing is starting to gain momentum and I have to make a decision. This is not the (big) cost difference with the subscription model. If things were working smmothly I wouldn't be looking for a replacement.
I got lots of frustration with Primere as a beginner and it's clear that learning a new Editing software will take valuable time. Perhaps it's a corporate logic according to which the user needs to experience the ecosystem and instill loyalty to the design language on the platform (Like Google, FB ads systems) The bottom line is that this is the most unintuitive interface among all the editing programs I've come across as a hobbyist alongside the glitches and complications I've experienced. What I do want to understand - espcialy from you - the more experienced, is whether there are any advantages (beyond popularity and sharing projects with other editors) in which Premiere is better?
The reason I'm asking here and not on general editing FB group / da Vinci forum/  is because there is a chance to find die-hard fans here who will provide arguments and reasons that I hadn't thought of.

[Michael Grenadier]

It's not a hobbyist's tool, it's a professional tool.  I have extensive experience with avid, FCP1-7 and a decent amount with Resolve.  Premiere's my tool of choice.   

But you're going to have to do your homework to learn and become fluent in Premiere.  There are comprehensive sets of tutorials on LinkedinLearning which is not cheap, but I thnk there's a free trial.     And there are lots of tutorials on youtube but a lot of crap to wade thru...

But maybe you don't need all the bells and whistles...   

Another plus for premiere is it's integration with photoshop, illustrator and aftereffects.  Of course those aren't simple programs to learn either...    And gotta say, there's a great community here and you learn an awful lot just scanning all the posts...  I can't say I've ever had a problem with Premiere that I haven't been able to solve or workaround often with the help of others on this forum (not to mention Kevin Monahan's the moderators help).  

I recently supervised the restoration of a 16mm documentary from the 80's.  The post house worked in resolve and when I was brought on board, the director of the film had about 10 notes of issues the post house was not able to solve...  I was able to fix most of them in Premiere...  Happy to describe some of them if you're interested.    That's not to say that they weren't fixable in Resolve...  just beyond the capabilities of the post house.  

But the fact is, any professional level NLE will probably do the job with sufficient investment of time and patience.    And I gotta admit that if I have a color correction problem I'm having difficulty with, I'll move it over to Resolve.  It's interface feels much more sophisticated for color correction and much more responsive but it's also got a very steep learning curve when you get to the more complicated issues.  And there are many things that I move over to AfterEffects to do and to Photoshop and/or Illustrator which are more difficult and cumbersome to do in Premiere.

[Takeone.Digital]

Thanks Michael. the point is this- in the new business I have to shoot, direct, take care of the lighting and audio and also edit. I'm a good editor as a novice and I want to know how to edit better and I even enjoy it, but I have no intention of becoming a professional editor - one who edits other people's projects -and ertainly not to learn additional Adobe software. Primere's inlogical interface failures and bugs make it very difficult to progress in learning. I'm just trying to figure out if I'm missing major failures or shortcomings in Resolve vs. Primere. e.g -example from today - synchronizing identical sound clips from an external recorder worked better in Primere compared to Resolve. that's sort of things I want to find out before I make the decision. P.S. If you know good channels for learning on YouTube (I learn from videos) I would appreciate the links.

[Michael Grenadier]

really can't help answer your question.  to me, they both seem to have the same level of difficulty.   Hopefully someone else here can answer.    And as I said in my post, checkout linkedin learning.  I think there's a free trial... and the tutorials are organized in sets and comprehensively address their subject matter.  So there may be a set of tutorials for premiere beginners, or about the latest set of updates...  and for me if I needed to learn a program from scratch which I found unintuitive, it would be worth the cost for a month or 2, rather than potentially wasting a lot of time searching and winnowing the youtube tutorials...  There's lots of things I hate in LinkedIn which I'd be happy to share although this doesn't seem the appropriate place...  but this is one area where it shines.

[Mike28794481yxy2]

Pro is NOT a professional tool.  It's an average software package that has been given a nice, glossy feel.  For a tool to be professional level, it not only needs to have professional level capabilities but also professional level service.  They two go hand in hand.  

[Michael Grenadier]

well, I've been a professional working with NLE's for about 30 years, having mastered Avid Media Composer, FCP 1-7, Premiere and for me Premiere is a professional tool and works fine for me both on modern macs, windows and my trusty 2012 macbookpro.  And I know many professionals who work in Premiere and recognize the depth of experience that only comes with working at a professional level from the top experts who contribute to this forum.

[Mike28794481yxy2]

So what you're saying is it takes years to figure out how to use this software properly.  That doesn't sound like a particularly good package to me. 

I've worked with extremely expensive and high end CAD and product design software such as Solidworks and CATIA for over 15 years now.  I can assure you that when you are exposed to such level, well thought out products (with extremely well thought out interfaces, quick learning curves, and stellar customer support) and then have to jump onto other platforms regardless of their application, you quickly realize how poorly developed and designed the other products are. 

PPro and software like it are no where near what I would consider "professional" level.  That's a misnomer or wrong label given by the people in their self-purported video and photo editing industry who are their own "experts."

[Michael Grenadier]

No I didn't say it takes years...  I sat down at an avid many years ago and just started editing.  But it took a while to understand and use all of it's features.  And frankly, I'm still learning how to use Premiere efficiently.  The thing about all the programs I've worked on is that they are a toolset for a vast number of users all with different things they want to do with it.     

[Mike28794481yxy2]

That's great but that doesn't make them professional level tools.  You need to expose yourself to other industries and proper professional tools to appreciate what professional level actually means.  And again, a large part of "professional" encompasses how Adobe not only responses to individuals and how good their customer service is.

Thus far, from scoping this place out for a few months without actually posting, the behavior and response of PPro fanboys and employees alike has been very poor.  Same for Filmora BTW..and their recent debacle with their "lifetime" subscription lie.

[R Neil Haugen]

I don't give a rat's tail about large corporations like Adobe or BlackMagic. They look after themselves. I've posted some major rants when I've thought both have made a decision I don't care for.

Michael and I are both users, and practical sots. You can rant about these apps not being "true professional" apps all you want. Feel free!

I don't really care about that type of discussion, period. I'll be more interested in discussions about specific things that could work better.

Because I'm mainly concerned about the basic functionality needed to get through the job.

And all of the pro video post apps are complicated, complex beasts that can be worked for hugely different high-end workflows and are used for that every day. ALL the media you watch from TV through streaming through movie theaters, has been produced in one or (typically) more of said apps.

Which are the pro toolset for the work, even though you find them all non-professional.

Understand, your opinion may be a fine opinion. Even a very educated one in some ways. I'm not questioning the reasoning behind it.

Simply the relevance here.

Neil

[Mike28794481yxy2]

I'm not suggesting you give a rats behind one way or another.  I don't care either about them.  But I do care that they are taking my money and not delivering on product or support.  I'm pointing out those shortcomings and mislabelings and it's 100% legitimate to compare them to other platforms in other industries as examples of how they should be.  If users accept this poor behavior just becuase their needs are being met, that's not good enough.  And hence why so many post-filming/editing software is so piss poor. 

Whether you agree with me or not, it's not my job to fix Adobe's lack of professionalism or product capability shortfalls.  

If you want to do that and be their testbed in some way, I respect that and you should do it.  But that's not my approach or interest in being their testbed while giving them money in the process. 

The playing field in this industry is limited.  So it's logical to assume apps you speak of will be one of the selected ones everyone needs to use.  These companies have a monopoly on these entities and they can get away with subpar products even if they do work.   My definition and expectation of "professional" is clearly differen than the one PPro users have.  A bit like how "Realtors" think they are professionals.

[Michael Grenadier]

The fact is, this forum is an incredible tool to help solve your problems with Premiere...   And with my 5 years of using Premiere intensively, I have never had an issue I couldn't solve or workaround either on my own or with the help of people like Neil...    

[R Neil Haugen]

I work in both in Premiere, AfterEffects and Audtion in "Adobesphere", and BlackMagic's Resolve. I've watched users working and the training materials for Avid, Nuke, Baselight, a number of others.

The NLEs and other video post apps are all complex beasts, with very unique workspaces/UI even from each other. And all the heavy ones take a lot of learning time. Doesn't matter which.

BlackMagic at least does provide a 4,000 page manual for Resolve. Which doesn't have an index. And they like to give normal tools a "Resolve" name, like they don't have masks, they have Power Windows. Right ... two words replacing the normal one. Sheesh.

So even with that amazingly detaild manual, if you don't know the right Resolve term, you may very easily not be able to find what you need to know.

Yea, this is a bit frustrating for users of all the apps. And like Michael says, they all have so many options and ways of doing things, with all users doing everything differently ... so yes, it's incredibly complex. And malleable for different needs once you know how.

Neil

[Warren Heaton]

@Mike28794481yxy2 

What would you consider a long period of time for professional level traning?  The industry recognized Promo Pathways program at Santa Monica College Center for Media and Design is a two year program.  Completing that program with networking should lead to a decade's long career.  There are other programs similar to it, but I'm not sure there's a way to fast-track that.

[Mike28794481yxy2]

Length of training is less important being able to use a tool that is quick to be learned, easy to use, and extremely powerful.  These are the haulmarks of a good tool...not one that is constantly talked about as "complex" and "needs a steep learning curve."  To me, IMO, these are not well designed and thought out tools.  No one is going to convince me that a video editing tool is more sophistcated than a commercial level CAD/FEA tool.  That's my opinion of course.

[Warren Heaton]

@Mike28794481yxy2 

When ranking tools as professional or not, are you accounting for what IATSE Local 700 video editors use?

[Mike28794481yxy2]

You're talking very specific use case...I'm talking overall design, support, etc. from the company itself.  I have almost two decades of complex FEA, product design, modeling, and 3D mapping experience using some of the top tools out there that cost $15-30k.  If you want benchmarks on how a professional level tool should look like, these are the tools to look at.  They are a different beast altogether.

[Warren Heaton]

Is said use case not professional?

From an interface design stand point, I find it very helpful that I can jump between different Adobe applicaitons and feel right at home with the similar interface design elements.  If I could change anything, I'd streamline the terminology a bit.  Group in Photoshop means something different than Group in Illustrator that means something different than Group in Premiere Pro.  Although, they're each different kinds of groups, so may that doesn't need flushing out.  A better examples is an Adustment Layer.  The behavior in Photoshop is no tthe same as the behavior for the like named feature in After Effects and Premiere Pro.

For product design, modeling, and 3d mapping, do you mean applications like those found in the Substance 3D family?

On a peronsal level, it's somewhat funny that you mention 3D tools.  It was learning Softimage under Unix that drove got me to seek out something like Photoshop under macOS.

[Mike28794481yxy2]

Solidworks, CATIA, ProEngineer, Cosmos, etc.  These are the types of tools I'm speaking of.  Jumping from one software to another than isn't native to itself (i.e. not within an Adobe family say) and being able to learn quickly is the difference between a well thought our ecosystem and one that isn't. 

All the packages I mentioned above have their unique flavors obviously.  But they are easy to learn, extremely powerful, and have vastly better product support than ANY of the video/photo editing packages I've experienced thus far.  It's an industry issue as much as it is a talent issue and who's behind the development of these software packages.  

For one, you don't need to deal with ridiculous chat portals to get assistance with someone on the other end talking to you like you're a beginner or child.  In this instance, Movavi's support was the best out of Adobe, Filmora, BlackMagic (DVR).  But they all have gravitated towards this sort of support..it must be a "Silicon Valley" thing.

[Oğulcan Tokar]

For me, short answer, no. You just lose Dynamic Link & Customizable layout, that's it. Resolve easily wins in pretty much every other field. However Creative Cloud is very useful, so i am keeping that.

I would recommend taking couple days off and prepare hotkeys and defaults, get used to ui.

[John280371953ssc]

currently i use dr. WHat is adobe compared to it honestly. I use dr cause its free and does a good job. Is adobe better?

jw i mostly do youtube videos

i mostly do editing and add effects, music and thumbnails.

thanks

[Michael Grenadier]

Personally, I vastly prefer Premiere Pro for editing, and prefer DR for color correction.    Premiere's integration with photoshop and AfterEffects is a plus.  But doesn't sound like you need that... If DR is working for you, not sure you need to switch.  

[John280371953ssc]

just wondering if its worth switching

[Michael Grenadier]

If you're able to accomplish what you want and it doesn't seem to take longer than it should, I'd stay where you are...

If any part of your workflow seems to take too long, tell us about it and we may be able to say whether premiere will handle it better.  

One thing I've found frustrating with the "free" version of DR is the fact that when you're trying to figure out how to do something either googling or searching the documentation (such as it is), it's not always clear whether it's included in the free version.    I've spent a fair amount of time trying to figure out why certain workflows don't seem to be available before finally realizing that it's not included in the free version.  For the most part at least in my experience, these are fairly advanced features.

[Ann Bens]

Moved to videolounge.