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News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max

Advocate ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Join us today at our #AdobeMAX keynote, live at 9:30 a.m. PT with CEO Shantanu Narayen and SVP @DWadhwani: http://adobe.ly/AdobeNext

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Enthusiast ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Here's the problem.   As a business I need to be able to go back to older projects from time to time.  As of this moment, if some one comes to me wanting material I shot and edited in FCP, maybe 5 or 6 years ago, I can restore the project from tape and I still have FCP sat on the shelf I can open the project with.  If I'd been "renting" FCP all those year ago I'd now be totally screwed.

And don't tell me I could just re-suscribe and all will be well.  What if the new versions don't open the old versions from several years ago?  What if the app has been killed off and no longer available.  I can think of a couple of apps in the creative suite that are no longer with us - and that's just in the last couple of versions!

By all means offer the low monthly payment for those who can't afford the price of entry to the suites, I'm totally OK with that.  But the ideal that the monthly rental is the ONLY way to solve the product update cycles is crazy.

How about offering a model where you can BUY the software you want AND get the updates for (say) 12 months online as they come out?  If you want more updates you can subscribe for longer, but you don't get turned off when you don't feel the need to subscribe month after month, year after year.

This is all about the low cost of entry.  It does nothing for the seasoned pro who has already invested (a lot of) their money in Adobe. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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I'll reserve judgment. But I upgraded to CS6 in part to have a perpetual license fall back that was as up to date as I could afford. There is now no choice better than that - as a perpetual license fall back - your only perpetual license option will be CS6. I can't find the note now, but someone commented that the ability to buy CS6 as a perpetual license by download will be available for an extended time. I do not see that in the announcement, however.

I'd be more angry, if some of the assumptions were correct. But they are not. I recommend that you read the FAQs to make sure that you are angry about the right things!

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html

For example, cloud members will have access to previous versions in the future, to deal with old projects. This will start with CS6, and older versions that than will rely on your perpetual licenses if you had them. (See FAQs "Do Creative Cloud members have access to previous versions of Creative Cloud apps?") Does that fix all such concerns? No. But it is not like there is no solution, and even current licenses leave room for such problems.

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Participant ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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100% agree!

This is one of my biggest concerns with the creative cloud renting software license model.

But what really piss me off is the fact that after paying years after years for the creative cloud subscription you don't get a byte of software you really own.

If you once stop subscription you are not able to open old project files you once created, you first have to renew your subscription to open project files you once created.

It's like loosing your own work if you don't pay Adobe their subscription fee!!!

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Advocate ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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EXACTLY, Felix!

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Contributor ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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If you once stop subscription you are not able to open old project files you once created, you first have to renew your subscription to open project files you once created.

If you need to re-open that old project (to up-sample it to YouTube's new 16K format coming out in 2024), would paying $50 for a month of access be a deal-breaker?

Seems like the debacle is all about owning vs. renting, not really about anything functional.  Am I wrong?

A similar debacle happened centuries ago: where to keep the money - in the bank (cloud), or under the mattress (locally). Didn't the mattresses lose, despite banks charging fees for their services?

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Participant ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Alex Gerulaitis wrote:

Seems like the debacle is all about owning vs. renting, not really about anything functional.  Am I wrong?

It seems to me like the real debacle is about trust.  In reading a lot of these threads it seems that there is an overwhelming fear that Adobe intends to hook everyone into the cloud then collectively bend us over the table.  So I guess the real question is "Do you trust Adobe with your professional future?"  If the answer is "no", then you should definitely seek out a company you do trust. 

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Community Beginner ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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"It seems to me like the real debacle is about trust.  In reading a lot of these threads it seems that there is an overwhelming fear that Adobe intends to hook everyone into the cloud then collectively bend us over the table.  So I guess the real question is "Do you trust Adobe with your professional future?"  If the answer is "no", then you should definitely seek out a company you do trust. "

Well, another way of looking at this... You are so comfortable with them that you are willing to submit to a compulsary Adobe tax for the rest of your professional life?

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Participant ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Kopy-Rite wrote:

Well, another way of looking at this... You are so comfortable with them that you are willing to submit to a compulsary Adobe tax for the rest of your professional life?

At this point, I've used Adobe products for most of my professional life and I'm fairly confident I will use them for the rest of my professional life.  So yes, I'm willing to submit to the "compulsary tax" just like I've been willing to submit to upgrades.  If the circumstances change--the price gets too high, the products fall behind the competition, I wake up and decide I hate the word "Adobe"--then I may change my opinion.  But for now, when it comes to career-related software, I have a lot more trust in Adobe than the competition.

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Explorer ,
Jun 19, 2014 Jun 19, 2014

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So... Can't help it, have to post. Part of the argument for CC was getting the upgrades as soon as they were ready. Looks like Adobe wasn't planning on giving the cloud users all of the updates/upgrades, since they have now released CC2014. A whole package of stuff, just like a normal CS release. Hmmm... and they can't offer a perpetual license why? Looks like they're still going to do a "release" every year.

It's come down to the simple fact that Adobe doesn't care what it's customers want. I've been reading the posts today about things that users have been asking for, and Adobe flat out didn't listen. (sorry, didn't care enough to do it the way their customers wanted)

This shows me that Adobe can NOT be trusted. Any company that ignores it's customers requests, and turns away from additional sales and profit just because it wants to, is one to stay away from.

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People's Champ ,
Jun 19, 2014 Jun 19, 2014

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Part of the argument for CC was getting the upgrades as soon as they were ready. Looks like Adobe wasn't planning on giving the cloud users all of the updates/upgrades, since they have now released CC2014. A whole package of stuff, just like a normal CS release. Hmmm... and they can't offer a perpetual license why? Looks like they're still going to do a "release" every year.

Right. We got a bunch of updates and then a really long drought. Nothing new at all to speak of for quite some time. Now we have a bunch of new stuff.

I get that they needed to change the file format, and you don't want to do that just willy-nilly, but is this really the way it will work? We have to wait for all of the apps to be ready again? Just like before?

Wow! Maybe they could easily package up the last version and sell it with a perpetual license a lot easier than I thought.

artofzootography.com

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Engaged ,
Jun 20, 2014 Jun 20, 2014

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Adobe sucks!!!

There is no other way of describing them.

You CCers were conned, drip fed some minor updates then a whole new package That results in a major upheaval and no backward compatibility.

YES they could have made a Perpetual version and made it CS.

Now is the time to say.......We told you so.

So may you enjoy supporting a Company who do not give a damn about you.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 20, 2014 Jun 20, 2014

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That results in a major upheaval and no backward compatibility.


What major upheaval ? ...and how would you know if you dont have CC?  It was simple install process that required a couple of "Custom" files to be copy and pasted.


Backward compatabilty - why would some one need to edit a new project in a previous version?


For a legacy project one uses the version one edited with  originally.  The versions remain discrete and available for use.

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People's Champ ,
Jun 21, 2014 Jun 21, 2014

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Backward compatabilty - why would some one need to edit a new project in a previous version?

Given that I am angry as a hornet whose nest has been sprayed by a kid with a hose, I will gladly answer that.

Let's say I started a project and put a few hours into it before I found out that exporting from CC 2014 is completely impossible for me. Since I only ever export H.264 and in Premiere Pro CC 2014 that feature causes areas of the frame to be soft, I might want to export in an earlier version.

I know it is impossible, so I don't even try. In fact, I will not start any serious projects using the 2014 software. I will play around and learn what I can, but since export is broken, what the heck do they expect will happen? People will just sit around and take the abuse? Add that to the ridiculous purple monster at the end of the media, and the anger is beginning to build to significant levels.

By the way, while I may be lucky enough to have enough drive space available to export to a lossless codec and use that to export from the earlier version, I doubt that most people can use that method. Many but not most. Not by a long shot. And I certainly would not do a long form project of more than an hour that way.

On the other hand, in support of my friend shooternz, there is no reason for all of the people in a group to be on the same version of CC software. Either CC or CC 2014, it is all the same price. I get that if one is on CC and one on CS6 (perpetual license) then there is a hassle there. I get it. But if they are both subscribers, then why not use the same software?

My first thought was that Adobe has been withholding new features from us for a while. However, I get that if they knew they were changing the file format, then they really only wanted to work on one format, not do one, and then another. If it got us even one good new feature from the time saved, it was probably worth it.

artofzootography.com

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LEGEND ,
Jun 21, 2014 Jun 21, 2014

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Let's say I started a project and put a few hours into it before I found out that exporting from CC 2014 is completely impossible for me.


Is this what is happening Steven or is it  "hypothetical" ?  (lets say")  Just asking!


There never has been "true" backward compatability in PPRO so nothing has changed much...but if I had the real need...I would be trying an EDL (or other) export to re conform in a back version, another NLE or another platform.  Thats one of the reason that  CC backward compatability argument has never held much water for me.

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People's Champ ,
Jun 21, 2014 Jun 21, 2014

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Is this what is happening Steven or is it  "hypothetical" ?  (lets say")  Just asking!

No, I found out in time. And my next project doesn't really get started until next week. I have been reviewing footage and getting ready, thinking I would do it in CC 2014. But I found out in time.

I know that there has never really been backward compatibility. I just never had a problem pop up that really bothered me before.

I don't expect this particular project to have more than four 30 minute segments. So I suppose I could use a lossless codec to export if the problem isn't solved in time. But seriously, how do they mess up H.264 that badly? Didn't one single beta tester notice it? Have they cut back way too far on beta testers? Back when I was a beta tester, I got free software as my reward. Perhaps they are too cheap to give up that much revenue?

artofzootography.com

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LEGEND ,
Jun 21, 2014 Jun 21, 2014

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I will do an H264 test tomorrow .

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People's Champ ,
Jun 21, 2014 Jun 21, 2014

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LATEST

H.264 encoding issues with Premiere Pro CC 2014

I spend a lot of time teaching in front of a white board. The export is a little fuzzy now and thwn. Maybe OK for a personal project, but not for a paying customer.

artofzootography.com

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People's Champ ,
May 16, 2014 May 16, 2014

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And this is how it starts. Adobe announced a "choice". We could now subscribe to CS6. Then it was no longer a choice.

Now Avid is announcing a "choice".

http://www.postmagazine.com/Press-Center/Daily-News/2014/Avid-reveals-new-subscription-plan.aspx

I am certain they learned a lesson from Adobe's experience. The question is: Did they learn to keep a perpetual license available, or did they learn they didn't need to? And did they learn the lesson correctly?

artofzootography.com

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Engaged ,
May 16, 2014 May 16, 2014

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Interesting.

I Presume that renting will be the norm eventually With most if not all producers of software.

Glad I have three different HD editing packages and therefore they (Adobe) can do what they want, I for one do not care anymore.

i'll still never, ever buy any Adobe product, for what I now do I have all I am likely to need for the next few years. 

Even if I get a G4 I would rather spend my cash on software updates elsewhere so I can edit the 4k footage on the latest software 300 bucks for a one off upgrade is far better value than any CC subscription in the UK

Col

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Engaged ,
May 16, 2014 May 16, 2014

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Steven L. Gotz wrote:

And this is how it starts. Adobe announced a "choice". We could now subscribe to CS6. Then it was no longer a choice.

Now Avid is announcing a "choice".

http://www.postmagazine.com/Press-Center/Daily-News/2014/Avid-reveals-new-subscription-pla n.aspx

I am certain they learned a lesson from Adobe's experience. The question is: Did they learn to keep a perpetual license available, or did they learn they didn't need to? And did they learn the lesson correctly?

Avid was my original destination after Adobe went to renting until I read the same thing about Avid.

That's why I am really hoping Resolve 11 will satisfy my needs.  Free doesn't hurt either!

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People's Champ ,
May 16, 2014 May 16, 2014

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That's why I am really hoping Resolve 11 will satisfy my needs.  Free doesn't hurt either!

I understand your point, but I am so locked in to Photoshop and Lightroom, and Muse and Dreamweaver, and Acrobat, that I might as well just count on staying with the entire CC package.

Once I retire, I imagine my my wife will stop working as a teacher, but I guess a local college tuition is in my future anyway, so I figure I will always be eligible for the educational discount. My retirement plans include lots of classes that start with "P".

Photography, Philosophy and Physics are all in my plans. As well as Art History, Music Appreciation and lots of other stuff. And Calculus. I need to take Calculus. As long as the subscription price increase doesn't go up more than about double the inflation rate, I should be OK.

artofzootography.com

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Mentor ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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lasvideo wrote:

Nope. Its strictly rent from the Cloud or nothing, from now on it seems.

Perhaps a few other options:

1.) Go with Open Source or competitive alternatives

2.) Use old Adobe Software also known now as abandon-ware (some software already was even current versions 😉

3.) Leave Adobe products all together and join the circus. (an actual circus, not Adobe's)

4.) Be part of Creative Cloud / "Bank of Adobe".

😉

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Mentor ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Sadly in some cases you get plastic houses (monopoly picture) with Adobe Software 😉

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Mentor ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Christopher Duncan wrote:

MS didn't get rich by being stupid.

Really? 😉

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Participant ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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I guess the real question at this point is what are my other options. There's Avid, which is about twice the price, though I hear it's no less buggy than Adobe. Then there's FCP, which would almost tempt me to buy a Mac were FCP X not such a controversial release. Either way, if they're not holding a gun to my head for the rest of my life, they're still more appealing. I don't react well to extortion.

I've invested in AE plugins from Video Copilot and Red Giant (both are very ethical companies and have excellent customer service, by the way) which will be lost money when I leave Adobe, plus the cost of replicating those features on the new platform. I'm currently on CS 4 because I haven't gotten around to going 64 bit on my hardware. Was planning on doing that and upgrading to CS 6 this year but that's a non starter now. So, while like many others I feel completely screwed here, at least I didn't buy CS 6 so that money can go towards whatever my new home is.

So, besides Avid & FCP, what platforms are you guys looking at? Not just for Premiere but also AE & Photoshop?

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