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News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max

Advocate ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Join us today at our #AdobeMAX keynote, live at 9:30 a.m. PT with CEO Shantanu Narayen and SVP @DWadhwani: http://adobe.ly/AdobeNext

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Extremely disappointed at this news!  I have CS6, but have stuck with CS5.5 for the majority of my projects simply because of the AVCHD and MXF bugs.  I was going to be one of the first ones to drop some $$ for CS7.

But now, I’m going to look at other vendors, probably Sony Vegas or Edius. 

Very poor decision IMO to eliminate the boxed versions.

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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I too was ready to pay for a new version, in hopes that it would fix the cache buffering issue which causes footage to lag on my system and many others, but it looks like I won't have that opportunity.  I have no problem with them changing their business model, that's the way it goes.  But it seems only fair that recent purchasers, say less than a year, should be given some type of financial incentive to move over to the cloud.

More importantly, I certainly hope that Adobe lives up to its word and shows its existing customers the respect they deserve by robustly addressing bug fixes in CS6.

Premiere's rapid adoption is very recent, and a lack of respect for the customer base will drive people to a new title just as fast as they came over to Premiere.  IfAdobe thinks its product is so wonderful and its lock on the market is so secure, they should remember Avid and Apple.

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Participant ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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> they should remember Avid and Apple.

I know I will.

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LEGEND ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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it seems only fair that recent purchasers, say less than a year, should be given some type of financial incentive to move over to the cloud.

"We offer special prices for our Creative Cloud subscription to existing Creative Suite customers."

https://creative.adobe.com/plans?plan=offers

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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We will continue to sell and support Adobe Creative Suite® 6 applications, and will provide bug fixes and security updates as necessary. We do not, however, have any current plans to release new versions of our CS applications.

So for existing CS6 users, hope of bug fixes is not dead yet.  It's only the new stuff that will be exclusive to the cloud. 

Whether or not Premiere Pro CS6 bug fixes actually appear, and how long Adobe will continue to support CS6, are questions that will be answered in time.  I hope that time comes soon and that the answers are positive.

Jeff

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Participant ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Given the rather extreme breach of trust the CC move constitutes, I wouldn't count on anything that resembles customer service. Quite the contrary. With the predatory practices they're now engaging in, it's simply not in their best interests to service CS 6. The sooner they can convince customers to ditch it, the faster they can hook them into a lifetime of monthly billing.

Since May 4th was just a couple of days ago, I hear two words ringing in my ears.

"Run, Luke."

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Since the beginning of time artists have been able to create art with tools that they owned.

Now, in one of the most gobsmackingly arrogant moves in the history of art, Adobe's corporate leadership has become diluded to the point where it thinks it can speak not only on behalf of all "creatives" but on behalf of the very "creative process" itself. http://www.adobe.com/cc/letter.html

I haven't been this mad since Apple told me I needed a new way to edit.

My new name for Adobe shall be Aborg. Resistence, apparently, will be futile.

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LEGEND ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Since the beginning of time artists have been able to create art with tools that they owned.

Most Hollywood motion pictures have been created using rented Panavision cameras.  It's only with the advent of Digital Cinematography that production companies can start to own the cameras they shoot with.

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Panavision was founded in 1953, so "most" Hollywood films were not created by using rented Panavision cameras. Even after 1953, many films weren't made with Panavision equipment. There were always viable alternatives in use, and the system never had the near-monolopy status that Adobe products have in the graphic/digital design/production marketplace.

Adobe's  announcement seems to me to be mostly a financial move designed to leverage that near-monopoly status to improve cash flow and make it more predictable. I think it will prove to be problematic for the company in the long run, but we'll see.

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LEGEND ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Even after 1953, many films weren't made with Panavision equipment.

My point was that it's not uncommon to rent equipment when making a motion picture, whether it's a camera or lighting or tripod or dolly or crane, etc.  The rental model for creating moving images has been with us for a long time.  It might be new for the software side of things, but it's not an entirely new concept in our field.

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Jim Simon wrote:

The rental model for creating moving images has been with us for a long time.  It might be new for the software side of things, but it's not an entirely new concept in our field.

Apples to Oranges (there's a pun in there somewhere).  The fact that you needed to explain it reveals that it's not the same customer.  Most PPro users work in a separate industry.  They cut wedding videos, corporate videos, local commercials, and lo/no budget features.  Perhaps they rent Red's and lenses, but for a heck of a lot less than Panavision gear.  And their buying attitudes for production hardware is different than their buying behavior for software.  I'm guessing Adobe understands this, but opted instead to try and change it, to fit their larger business model.  They're entitled, but history is not on their side.

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LEGEND ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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Apples to Oranges

I guess you can say "the sky is blue" till you're blue in the face, but some folks will still argue and call it cerulean.

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Enthusiast ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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Jim Simon wrote:

Since the beginning of time artists have been able to create art with tools that they owned.

Most Hollywood motion pictures have been created using rented Panavision cameras.  It's only with the advent of Digital Cinematography that production companies can start to own the cameras they shoot with.

Yes indeed, but at the end of filming they didn't need to keep paying for the camera so they could distribute the film.  They hired it, did the job and then didn't need it again.  If they needed to reshoot a scene they could hire it again or go somewhere else and get essentially the same results. 

But what can I use to open Premiere Pro projects other than Premiere Pro if I need to work on them again in the future?    XML export / import is too fragile to rely upon.

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Enthusiast ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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There are SOME apps in the suite this could make sense for.  For instance, we use Dreamweaver to create web sites but you aren't locked in to Dreamweaver for editing in future because the files are plain text.

But apps like Premiere Pro, After Effects, InDesign etc by their ver nature lock you in to a proprietary file format, and 'that' is where renting really burns you because if you stop renting then while you can still get at your entire Dreamweaver design, you can't get at your effects work, your edit in Premiere Pro or your book/magazine/brochure design in InDesign. 

Lots of things open PSD files (though may not preserve all the effects), but what opens AE and PR files?

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LEGEND ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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at the end of filming they didn't need to keep paying for the camera so they could distribute the film.  They hired it, did the job and then didn't need it again.  If they needed to reshoot a scene they could hire it again or go somewhere else and get essentially the same results. 

How's this any different?  Once you're done editing, you still have access to the Blu-ray, DVD or whatever deliverable you've created.  If you need to do any further editing, you can always rent it again.

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Enthusiast ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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Jim Simon wrote:

at the end of filming they didn't need to keep paying for the camera so they could distribute the film.  They hired it, did the job and then didn't need it again.  If they needed to reshoot a scene they could hire it again or go somewhere else and get essentially the same results. 

How's this any different?  Once you're done editing, you still have access to the Blu-ray, DVD or whatever deliverable you've created.  If you need to do any further editing, you can always rent it again.

Agreed...I read this the same way you did Jim. I just thought it was so nonsensical that I didn't respond. Deliverables are never the issue.

Regarding the general need to open old client projects and make changes....this is definitely something that comes up with me from time to time with both event clients and corporate clients. It's absolutely not an everyday thing, but it happens. When a client comes back 1 year later and asks for new edits, I always bill for that. I charge anytime I'm doing work. I cannot account for anyone else's billing policies, but I tend to believe there is nothing unethical about me charging clients for my work.

So that being the case, let's just assume that you are a Creative Cloud subscriber for the next 12 months, and you do a major project for AAA Business Company, Inc. After your annual obligation to Creative Cloud ends, you cancel it and switch to Avid. Then in 2015, your AAA Business Company Inc. comes back to you and says "hey, we want to change this one scene where the actor sneezes and add a star wipe at the end, and put some LOL bubbles above his head." Okay, now you know that's a 4 hour gig, and you bill for that time, and you know you have to pay $20, $30, $50 or $70 to install/license the software you used to create the project (pricing all depending on whether you used 1 Adobe tool, a couple, or all of them in the suite). So you explain to your client that you have to license the software to work on the project and add it to the billable items. Or if you don't want to be upfront with your client about licensing stuff, just do what I do anyway, and bill your client and archiving/accessing fee to reload the project on your editor. Honestly, in all the years I've done this, I've not had one client who didn't understand the need to bill for accessing old projects. I've had one or two that didn't want to pay for it (like, they didn't want to pay anything, stuff like "isn't that just going to take you like 2 seconds to do that?"....stuff all customers say when they don't know how editing works, you know?).

Anyway, hopefully this example helps. This isn't a workaround, it's just work. Your clients know you charge for your work based on labor and built-in costs, so just do it.

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New Here ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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An excellent analysis of Adobe's plans, complete with quotes directly from Adobe, take from their March 10Q report filed with the SEC.

http://timelapse.org/2013/05/adobes-creative-monopoly/

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Enthusiast ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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Stu S wrote:

An excellent analysis of Adobe's plans, complete with quotes directly from Adobe, take from their March 10Q report filed with the SEC.

http://timelapse.org/2013/05/adobes-creative-monopoly/

The money thing is an excellent example in that post, but really more for Adobe's cause, and for reasons not mentioned. Look at all the people paying for online shared storage for clients/collegues to share assets. I used to pay $9/month for that. Now I have shared storage in Creative Cloud. So that offsets my investment.

That's an example of the total value. If you only compare it to the past way of upgrading and costs thereof, without any regard to the total Creative Cloud offering, you will most certainly miss things.

Likewise, when you used to purchase, you got ONLY a PC version OR a Mac, and you couldn't use 2 copies simultaneously. There are a ton of places that are glad to have one license now that they can use on their PC and their Mac, AND simultaneously. This is another example of the total value missing in the general assessments.

None of this means that everyone works this way (I don't own a Mac, but we have 2 editing machines). But it's stuff that was not even possible all those years going back where we're comparing today's costs of Adobe software to the way it was 10 years ago.

And again, one of the benefits of the subscription model is that you dont' have to write a giant check to go up to the next version. I remember when I used to work at another studio, when a new version came out, I had to put together a huge case to drop some cash and get new features. If I'm subscribed, I no longer have to beg and plead for new versions for the studio from a manager who may or may not be a creative to begin with.

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Enthusiast ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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And how does this work when it's your own artistic project you need to revisit? I do client work and charge for that. But I also love making my own projects for purely artistic reasons. I really hate the idea of not being able to open those om the future if I start using creative cloud.

I think most people have real reasond for being skeptical about this model. We all have dealt with all kinds of crap related to product activations (now every month), bugs and version incombatibility.

The reason Adobe is pushing this move is simple: It doens't like the idea of people being free to choose if the upgrade is good enough. When they force you into the subscription model, it doesn't matter anymore. I have been disappointed with the lack of new features in CS5 and CS6. And when a company makes me feel disappointed, I excercise my right not to give away my money. Adobe wants to remove that option from me, because they are not confident that they can create good enough features to actually make me WANT to upgrade.

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Advocate ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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Andy, exactly my thoughts as well.

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LEGEND ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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I really hate the idea of not being able to open those om the future if I start using creative cloud.

Why do you think you won't?

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Community Beginner ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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Won't what?

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Enthusiast ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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Jim, what if I change my profession or simply retire and don't want to pay the 79$/month anymore (the european cost of things)? What happens to all my projects then? With the current model in which I can use the software forever, I don't have to worry about that. I can imagine installing CS 5.5 in 2030 inside a virtual box system and run it happily. If I take the CC option, I'm hooked forever and held hostage by my own work.

I just removed the Adobe newsletter from my email. I know others have done the same. Let's hope we can send a signal with that in addition to not buying Adobe software.

One more thing. I used to love Adobe. As a teacher I have marketed Photoshop, Dreamweaver, After Effects and Premiere to hundreds of students. I really wanted Adobe to succeed. But not anymore.

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LEGEND ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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Jim, what if I change my profession or simply retire and don't want to pay the 79$/month anymore

The same thing that would happen if you stopped paying on a car lease.  If you ever need to drive again, you pay the short term rental rates at Enterprise.  (They'll even pick you up. )

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Enthusiast ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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And what if I want to work on a long term project during weekends? Let's say during 3 years (I have had certain personal projects in the edit even longer). I will have to find extra 100 $ each month. Let's remember the one month fee is even higher than the annual subscription.

The comparison to leasing a car fails. If I need transportation later in my life, there is a pleathora of options I can use. I wont be hooked to the same car leasing company forever. Not the same thing with AE projects.

In your analogy I would always have to use the same car leasing company, no matter how inferior and over priced they would make their products.

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