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Alexis Van Hurkman
Community Manager
Community Manager
August 15, 2024
Question

[Now Released]: Dramatically updated color management in Premiere Pro

  • August 15, 2024
  • 29 replies
  • 43813 views

We’re pleased to bring to public beta some dramatic improvements and expansions to the color management experience, tailored specifically to the needs of the Premiere Pro editor. With the right source clip metadata, color management automatically adjusts the color and contrast of each clip in your sequence so that every source clip from every camera is converted into a shared color space for further adjustment, and then output to the color space of your choice with automated color space conversions, tone mapping, and gamut compression creating high-quality output with the correct color.

 

In this new version, color management becomes more automated, handles more formats, preserves more image data, and gives you more flexibility to choose just the right workflow for your needs, even turning it off either partially or completely if you would rather work manually using Input LUTs, Creative LUTs, and effects.

 

After installing the public beta, your default Premiere Pro experience shouldn’t seem that different from before, but there’s a lot under the hood to explore. Here’s a rundown of the new features we’ve made available when using Premiere Pro color management:

  • Each sequence’s color management is easily configurable in the Sequence controls of the Settings tab of the Lumetri panel. By default, color management works similarly to the Premiere Pro color workflows you’re already used to when using the default Direct Rec.709 (SDR) preset. Alternately, you can choose to use one of our wide-gamut color processing presets to maximize the image quality of all grading and timeline effects when using wide-gamut or wide-latitude source media. Regardless of how you choose to work, Lumetri and other effects have been made color space aware, so they work well in any preset.
  • Users who don’t want to use automated color management can now turn it off from within the same Color Setup menu. This is useful for pass-through workflows when you don’t want the color space of media being processed at all, or when engaging in traditional display-referred grading workflows using LUTs and manual adjustments.
  • Premiere Pro now automatically color manages camera raw media, including Apple, ARRI, Canon, RED, and Sony raw media formats. As long as color management is enabled, raw clips will be automatically processed.
  • The Override Media Color Space menu has been expanded to support even more color spaces for more cameras and formats, making it easier than ever to color manage media that were either recorded or transcoded to standard file formats such as QuickTime and MXF, without needing to track down the right input LUT.
  • For clips you don’t want to be automatically color managed, a new Preserve RGB setting in the Color tab of the Modify Clip dialog prevents input to working color space conversions, allowing you to manually convert clips either using LUTs or manual filter adjustments.
  • Program MonitorVideo ScopesTransmit, and Media Export all output the image as it appears after conversion to a new Output Color Space setting. While the working color space lets you choose how media is processed, the Output color space lets you choose the specific color space you want to monitor (SDR, HDR PQ, or HLG) and deliver your program to. This guarantees that the working color space never needs to be changed, while making it easy to change color spaces at any time to create multiple deliverables using the same grade (e.g., delivering both HDR and SDR versions of the same sequence).
  • Improved tone mapping algorithms and new gamut compression settings improve quality when automatically converting wide-gamut source media to standard dynamic range. Additionally, there are now two ways  of using tone mapping, on input or on output.
  • Premiere Pro color management has been improved to enable smoother interoperability and color consistency using Dynamic Link for round-tripping color managed sequence clips between Premiere Pro and After Effects whenever you use the Replace with After Effects composition command.
  • Last, but certainly not least, if you import projects and sequences created in older versions of Premiere Pro that have grading and effects already applied, these will automatically be configured to appear the same as before, while the color management will function exactly the same as before. If you decide you want to override these legacy settings and use the new color management, you can override the custom settings the sequence was set up with and choose a different color management preset (and you can use Undo if you find this was a mistake).

 

As you can see, color management in Premiere Pro has become quite a bit more sophisticated. However, the best way to experience this is by upgrading to the public beta, creating a new project, importing some media, and experimenting for yourself:

  • By default, new sequences use the “Direct Rec.709 (SDR)” preset with the output set to Rec.709. This preset is best used when most of your source media is SDR but you’re importing some wide gamut camera raw or log-encoded media as well, and will give you the most familiar color handling experience.
  • If you want to try working completely manually, you can open up the Sequence Settings and set the Color Setup menu to “Disable Color Management.”
  • If you’re more adventurous, you can change the Color Setup menu to “Wide Gamut (Tone Mapped)” to try using the wide gamut workflow we’ve created to maximize the quality of sequences using primarily wide-gamut media.

 

As you experiment with the new color management options, be sure to share your questions or comments in this forum. We also encourage you to view the new color management documentation on our website: https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/color-management-improvements.html

 

Keep in mind that we’ll be continuing to bring improvements throughout the public beta period as we respond to issues reported, so details may change as time goes on.

 

We look forward to your feedback!

29 replies

Shebbe
Community Expert
Community Expert
October 28, 2024

Some feedback about the UI.

 

From an empty project draggin a clip to the timeline panel to create a new timeline with the Advanced options closed, opening that section messes up positioning of Sequence Clip section causing overlaps.

Switching the whole tab back and forth fixes it due to redraw/refresh.

 

Then subsequently, closing Advanced section again and jumping from Direct Rec.709 to Wide Gamut Tone Mapped, then opening Advanced section again causes another smaller shift in the listing at the Sequence Clip section.

 

 

 

Mike_Abbott
Legend
October 30, 2024


I've recently been looking at the new colour management system, and along the way have noted a few points I'd like to raise. If any of these display 'operator error' on my part I'm sure you'll let me know : )

 

1. I appreciate the the new system is 'sequence centric', but I think an option to set program level default colour management settings is needed.
I have clients using a wide variety of footage types, frames sizes and frame rates on an ad-hoc basis, so they make sequences as required - but want them all to be Wide gamut (tone mapped) with Rec709 output.
They'd like to make that colour management setting the default for all sequences - rather than having to remember to set it for each on creation.

 

2. Having set a sequence to use non-default colour management - eg: Wide gamut (tonemapped), In the case of a 'clip mismatch' warning - with 'change sequence settings' chosen - the sequence reverts back to the colour management defaults of Direct Rec709. I've always thought of 'clip mismatch' as a frame size and frame rate issue only, so I don't think it should be making a change to the colour management setting.

 

3. More of a question: Is it possible to easily identify media that has not been auto recognised by the system?

 

On a more general note: I'm seeing a lot of footage that is not being 'auto recognised' - that I think should be.


Kind regards to all.

R Neil Haugen
Legend
October 30, 2024

1) Having a project wide setup, that allowed for changes per sequence, would be a big help.

 

At the moment, they seem "sticky" ... so if you set it up as X down the line, next one will have the same settings. Which is fine. Normally.

 

But then you need a Rec.709 sequence, duplicate it and make that one HLG. Now, as HLG is the last you selected, the next one seems to be HLG. So it takes constant vigilance to get what you want.

 

2) Well, you gotta add CM mismatch to your clip mismatch understandings now. They don't list them separately.

 

3) Good question! I don't know of any way that the program 'tells' you that.

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
Participant
October 22, 2024

i would like to start by saying I feel bad I haven't had enough projects to try out more features. And that all changed recently and now I need to explore the entire new camera raw/log color system.  Just jumped into color systems and LOG and now I can learn and grow with it. I'm so excited.

Participant
October 18, 2024

Hello,

 

I am a bit lost whe it comes to using Apple video (from an Iphone). In the latest version uodate, I do not see anywhere how todisable "log color management". So my Iphone clips look super blowed out. The only solution I found is to go the sequence setting and change the working color space to Rec.709 (which I always do) and then go in the Lumetri color setting panel an overrid the medio color space to Rec.709 too. The problem is that I cannot copy paste this color attribute to all the other clips. So I end up having to manually do it for each clip..

Do you have a solution for me?

 

Thanks

 

R Neil Haugen
Legend
October 18, 2024

You're only doing parts of the color management ... and then they don't align.

 

All color management tools are in the Lumetri panel, SETTINGS tab.

 

Set auto detect log on, set auto tonemapping on, and you can work with that media in either Rec.709 or HLG sequences without any individual clip management needed.

 

For most users, unless running a "clean feed" output via Decklink card, you should have Display Color Management on also. Mac users might want to use Viewing Gamma 1.96/Quicktime if you only care how it looks outside Premiere on your Mac without reference modes. (The rest of us will then get a much darker image of your video, but thank you Apple ...)

 

Past that, I can give you a much longer, more detailed go at the settings if needed.

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
MyerPj
Community Expert
Community Expert
October 18, 2024

Hey Neil, I'll take you up on that 'more detailed' 🙂

Are these what you are referring to:

 

Shebbe
Community Expert
Community Expert
October 11, 2024

@Alexis Van Hurkman Hey, I've done little more testing.

 

fnord's OpenColorIO & BorisFX' S_OCIOTransform plugins are broken:

With ACEScct and Direct when, I add the OpenColorIO plugin (without even loading a config) the image breaks. Why is that? They work fine in non managed context, even with conversions to linear and back.

 

Mixing sequences -> squish...

When I put that ARRI sample clip in a non managed Rec.709 sequence and place that sequence in ACEScct, the squish from around 42 IRE and up happens. We also do not have any control over manually overriding the unmanaged sequence's color space. Maybe that partially makes sense, but if we need/want to preserve appearance for Rec.709 we need at least an inverse of the DRTs when using ACEScct working space. I would hope that it's planned otherwise there's little point in using ACEScct.

 

[edit] I screenshotted the wrong scopes on the left (higher exposure) but the squish still happens.

 

Lumetri Color exposure in ACEScct:

According to my testing exposure has become linear gain. It would be nice to have an alternative log offset option which tends to be a preferred response when exposing up, taking along the black and negative values. Brightness & Contrast effect also do offset but the slider is too sensitive for log, requiring holding down CTRL/CMD. Plus having it included in Lumetri would make the tool more feature rich.

 

 

 

 

R Neil Haugen
Legend
October 11, 2024

Exposure has been linear gain with an intriguing roll-off in SDR as it hits around 98IRE. But straight gain always going down.

 

The Shadows wheel is Lift ... so Lumetri hasn't had any Offset, actually, and that has always been a gripe of mine. I prefer OGG to LGG any time day or night, but then, I'm not necessarily the average bear.

 

Getting an Offset option to me would be a huge improvement.

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
Shebbe
Community Expert
Community Expert
October 11, 2024

That rolloff  when increasing is only in the 'non color space aware' mode. When you use ACEScct color management it is matching multiplication in linear image state. So I'm assuming there is an internal  conversion from ACEScct to AP1/Linear (ACEScg) and back to achieve this. But we haven't been given any real technical information unforetunately...

R Neil Haugen
Legend
October 11, 2024

@Alexis Van Hurkmanor any color staffers  ... in general I do like the algo's used in Premiere's auto log detect/ auto tonemapping process.

 

One question  ... just on account of being used to doing this elsewhere  ... is there any way to apply the tonemapping algo, and tweak exposure/contrast before it?

 

As we can with say a LUT applied in the Creative tab, using Basic tab to trim the clip into the LUT. Or by node based CSTs in Resolve?

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
Shebbe
Community Expert
Community Expert
October 11, 2024

That can only work if you are working in a scene-refered color space like ACEScct. Then Lumetri exposure is linear gain, or you can use Brightness & Contrast effect to use log offset rather than linear gain which is preferred if exposing up. It's contrast slider is linear contrast.

 

If you don't want to work in log you only have the exposure 'compensation' slider that is in the color management panel itself where the per clip tone mapping settings are.

R Neil Haugen
Legend
October 11, 2024

Yea, that's a given this would be scene-referred.

 

But how do we apply their tonemapping after we do the trim? What's the steps there ... if it's possible.

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
jakew39230329
Known Participant
October 1, 2024

Can we get colour space tagging on export too? So we can use 1-2-1 tag when using rec709 2.4 gamma. 

Mike McCarthy
Community Expert
Community Expert
September 18, 2024

I am super excited about this development, and while I have not had the time to dig into the minutia as much as some of the others on this amazing thread, I am impressed with what I have tested so far.  The one issue I have discovered, is that while R3D files default to importing with the decoding settings set to Log3G10/RedWideGamutRGB (Which was a great improvement a couple years ago) the new color management system identifies the Media Color Space as Rec709.  As soon as you go to 'Interpret Footage->Color>Override Media Color Space' and select Red Log3G10/WideGamut, then things seem to work correctly.  But really that should probably be the default color management setting for all R3D files upon import into Premiere.  And hopefully that should be simple to fix.

R Neil Haugen
Legend
September 18, 2024

Agreed.

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
Shebbe
Community Expert
Community Expert
September 17, 2024

Hello! I have some more feedback.

 

 

What exactly is Adobe's definition of Colorspace Aware? In my books the whole point of color space aware tools is that the appearance does not change when the working space is altered, because mechanically it converts from it to it's own optimized working space and back to the working space after. The fact that Lumetri does change means that it is not color space aware? It's only applying different math to the ACEScct working space version over Rec.709 based management? If say ARRI LogC3 would be added as a second log working space option even between those using the same settings would result in a different apperance because the math is still applied directly on the incoming r,g,b data like any other non color space aware tool.

Can we have some insight as to what the tool actually is doing? I know the kind of operations it makes in unmanaged / Rec.709 context because there the working space == output == scopes making it easy to visualize. In ACEScct I cannot see it. What is exposure doing? What is white/black doing? Are they still behaving in an assymetrical way (different math going up vs down from unity value) just like the 'default' mode? How is the curves range distributed?

I think it's fair to give insight to these workings so we can make informed decisions on how we manipulate the image. Just going off by the name of the sliders is too vague in professional context.

 

If Lumetri Color is really designed to operate properly and predictably for ACEScct/log, why not give the user the option to switch it's mode when managing the color manually? This is something I suggested a while ago already and it would be of great help to those that want to use Lumetri Color in conjunction with their own display LUTs in manual management rather than Color Management based display conversions.

 

Lastly, I did a quick test on the shipped Creative LUTs that are shipped with Lumetri. They go completely bonkers in ACEScct. I think it's really cool that a mechanism is designed to define the intended color space for the LUT but the appearance does not match at all to that of direct 709 conversion based management. Data looks clamped/squashed.
The problem seems to be the same as what I established in my first post. The DRTs do not have inverses. This is making ACEScct useless to work with for both this purpose and the use of graphics/logos that need to remain 'untouched'. Unless I'm missing something here, feel free to prove me wrong.

 

ACEScct:

Rec.709:

 

 

Participant
September 23, 2024
quote

What exactly is Adobe's definition of Colorspace Aware? In my books the whole point of color space aware tools is that the appearance does not change when the working space is altered, because mechanically it converts from it to it's own optimized working space and back to the working space after. The fact that Lumetri does change means that it is not color space aware?

 Our definition of this is somewhat pragmatic because redoing all of the Lumetri math to become fully invertible in all color spaces is beyond the scope of what we're aiming to achieve in this release. The goal we've set for ourselves is (a) to preserve what Lumetri does today, and (b) to make Lumetri work as close as is feasible in a wider gamut as it does in Rec.709, while allowing a bit more adjustibility to better account for the additional lattitude that's available. It's imperfect, but pragmatically we're aiming to improve the experience without having the controls feel completely different.

quote

Lastly, I did a quick test on the shipped Creative LUTs that are shipped with Lumetri. They go completely bonkers in ACEScct.

 There's a bug currently in that there is clamping happening in wide gamut. We're working on eliminating the clamping, at which point you should be able to apply LUTs designed to work in other color spaces to ACEScct and have a comparable look to what you'd expect.

Known Participant
September 16, 2024

Hi all

 

Relative newbie to Slog and color space management here and just getting to grips with the new color management system.

 

1st, worth pointing out we expose 'to the right' as per best practice for Sony Slog

 

Previously to date we'd applied the Sony Slog3 LUT to our sequence via an adjustment layer (applying it on the clip in the bin as an *Input* LUT causes it to er...clip before we try to adjust the exposure.)

 

After digging around in forums the trick is to apply the LUT transform *after* any exposure adjustments so you either add another Lumetri effect in the clip effects or you add the LUT via a look. All great but seemed ... well odd.

 

New mechanism makes more sense, understand the clip's colour space when you import it and allow exposure/saturation adjustments directly via the new Lumetri settings option.

 

Two things -

 

1 - Apply to all clip instances doesn't apply the exposure adjustments to the other clips in the sequence, and neither does copy/paste attributes.

 

2. Given the exposure adjustments only happen to the clips in the sequence, all the thumbnails in the bin are now overexposed and looking a bit rubbish.

 

Have I missed a trick here?

 

 

Shebbe
Community Expert
Community Expert
September 16, 2024

There would be a lot to explain about working with log and color management but I'll keep it consolidated to your specific questions. 

 

"Previously to date we'd applied the Sony Slog3 LUT to our sequence via an adjustment layer (applying it on the clip in the bin as an *Input* LUT causes it to er...clip before we try to adjust the exposure.)

After digging around in forums the trick is to apply the LUT transform *after* any exposure adjustments so you either add another Lumetri effect in the clip effects or you add the LUT via a look. All great but seemed ... well odd."

Workflow-wise what you've been doing before where you make your adjustments before applying the Sony LUT is roughly the same as how it is handled in the settings tab. There's nothing odd about it. It comes down to how the used math works against the order of operations and the image state. If in manual managed context you'd like to adjust exposure before applying a LUT without loading a full second Lumetri instance you can also use the Brightness & Contrast effect. The brightness slider's math is addition/subtraction in grading also referred to as offset. Because log is encoded with equal distribution of stops this will behave as changing the exposure. You just need to hold CTRL/CMD when changing the slider because it's very sensitive. Contrast can also be managed in that same compact tool. The reason I explain this is because the exposure slider in Lumetri is not behaving in the same way so even if you apply the LUT after it via a second instance or in the Creative slot, you won't get the proper results.

 

About your two things:

 

1. I believe you are talking about the exposure adjustment you have available on the color management settings tab of Lumetri. This function seems to be designed to transfer the chosen properties to the other instances of only that same clip. That works as expected on my end. I think the copy/paste attributes does not (yet?) contain transferable Lumetri Color data.

 

2. There is no trick, the thumbnails will simply be whatever it is you shot, with the display conversion applied. It cannot auto compensate for any exposure differences.

 

 

Shebbe
Community Expert
Community Expert
September 13, 2024

Hi @Alexis Van Hurkman ,

 

I want to highlight my concern again looking at the differences between direct log to Rec.709 conversion and working in ACEScct. The squish I was talking about can be more clearly seen in the higher resolution scope Resolve has.

The image below is a ramp going from 0-1 in linear converted to ArriLogC3 so it could be interpreted by Premiere's color management.

 

The curve going above then below the other one is with ACEScct working space.

This means that in the tone curve something is causing a non smooth curve to appear. I won't make guesses why this is but I'm really certain that this is undesireable, especially because it's happening in the 'standard range' of the display rather than the 'tonemapped highlights'.

 

The main problem is also that the direct Rec.709 tone mapping is different than that of ACEScct at all. They should render the same when the same DRT is used.

 

Alexis Van Hurkman
Community Manager
Community Manager
September 16, 2024

Hey Shebbe, we're well aware of the "squish" and have a short-term feature that will help with this behavior, and a longer-term plan to deal with it more comprehensively that requires some R&D, and both are future features. The non-smoothness of the curve is interesting so we'll look into it. I'll make an announcement when we make further developments around this.

Shebbe
Community Expert
Community Expert
September 16, 2024

That's good to hear. I also hope the team will be very careful in decision making. Ideally the whole color management system is a fixed mechanism not subject to change once released (at least for some years). We already have a Legacy Hue Preservation tone mapper when the full management system hasn't even been released yet.

I hope that is something that will be depricated. Perhaps if mechanically possible it would be a good idea to only enable it in the case of backward compatibility of older projects but hidden for new. And upon selecting a different tonemapping method in such older projects have a message pop up that states that you can't undo. This would allow full deprication of it later down the line.