P: Nikon Z7 RAW processing and White Balance

After some testing I would like to offer that I have found a sample NEF from a Nikon Z7 running firmware NIKON Z7 Ver.01.00 that does not seem to have the magenta shift issues when using "NIKON Z 7 Adobe Standard.dcp"

Thanks! So much for this being an Adobe profile issue. 

One last question is are there files that "Nikon Z 6 Adobe Standard.dcp" does not produce the magenta shift for? Would there be any harm in renaming the DCP files for the moment?

If indeed you can use it as you desire and get the results you want, NO issues. 

I have found a sample NEF from a Nikon Z7 running firmware NIKON Z7 Ver.01.00 that does not seem to have the magenta shift issues when using "NIKON Z 7 Adobe Standard.dcp"

That appears to be the cause and the same reason for the Nikon Z6 white balance issue. Adobe must have used an early production sample of the Nikon Z7 camera for creating the camera profiles. Nikon apparently made changes that affected the white balance readings inside LR/ACR in a later camera firmware update.

One last question is are there files that "Nikon Z 6 Adobe Standard.dcp" does not produce the magenta shift for? Would there be any harm in renaming the DCP files for the moment?"

Although the Z6 and Z7 cameras are very similar the sensors are not identical. However, you can use the DNG Profile Editor (DPE) to change the Z7 Adobe Standard Base Profile to the Z6 Adobe Standard v2 camera profile, but that only changes the color tables. I tried it and the WB readings are the same!

What you can do with DPE is to "correct" the WB readings so they more closely match the As Shot readings. I've done that and you can download the WB corrected Z7 Adobe Standard camera profile at the below Dropbox link.

(Link Corrected)
Adobe Standard Corrected

Download and copy the file to the below folder location and then restart LR to load the new profile. It will appear in the LR Profile Browser under the 'Adobe Raw' list. You can make it a Favorite by clicking to the right of the profile name.

Windows—C:\Users\NAME\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles

Mac—Macintosh HD / Users / [your username] / Library / Application Support / Adobe / CameraRaw / CameraProfiles


Keep in mind ALL of the Z7 camera profiles have the same WB issue. When (and if) Adobe creates new v2 camera profiles the 'As Shot' WB readings may be slightly different than using the WB corrected profile I've created. Anyhow it would be good to see if this "simple" correction to the camera profile's WB fixes the issue. Please give it a try and let me know. To enable easily changing back the profile at a later date you may want to add a unique keyword to the files as you edit.

Hi Andrew,

I would like to apologize for an indignant tone in my original posts and thank you for your responses as well as all the others. I also missed the key detail that I was actually working with the "Adobe Color" profile which is not a DCP, but an Enhanced Profile. This explains why when pasting settings from the Z6 to the D500 with "Treatment and Profile" checked in Lightroom it was not giving me similar issues. There is no file "Nikon D500 Adobe Standard V2.dcp" so instead of trying to and paste a DCP it was only pasting the "Adobe Color.xmp" and everything is gravy. When I have tried to paste settings from the Z6 to the D500 with "Adobe Standard V2" selected it gives me a small error notice in the profile settings.

After some testing I would like to offer that I have found a sample NEF from a Nikon Z7 running firmware NIKON Z7 Ver.01.00 that does not seem to have the magenta shift issues when using "NIKON Z 7 Adobe Standard.dcp" The sample file that *Todd Shaner posted that firmware is NIKON Z7 Ver.01.02 does have the issues with that DCP. I have reproduced my issues with files from a Nikon Z6 camera having the magenta shift when "Nikon Z 6 Adobe Standard.dcp" is applied with my own Z6 running Ver.01.01 and Ver.03.00. I found a file from a Z6 running "NIKON Z6 Ver.01.00" and unlike the Z7 of the same version number it had the same issue. (Both files are linked below and all firmware version names are as Lightroom displayed them)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Pb2GYbF02Wd4CJCf19tZwfU8T4s2az2l

https://img.photographyblog.com/reviews/nikon_z7/photos/nikon_z7_05.nef

One last question is are there files that "Nikon Z 6 Adobe Standard.dcp" does not produce the magenta shift for? Would there be any harm in renaming the DCP files for the moment?

Hi Andrew,

I would like to apologize for an indignant tone in my original posts and thank you for your responses as well as all the others. I also missed the key detail that I was actually working with the "Adobe Color" profile which is not a DCP, but an Enhanced Profile. This explains why when pasting settings from the Z6 to the D500 with "Treatment and Profile" checked in Lightroom it was not giving me similar issues. There is no file "Nikon D500 Adobe Standard V2.dcp" so instead of trying to and paste a DCP it was only pasting the "Adobe Color.xmp" and everything is gravy. When I have tried to paste settings from the Z6 to the D500 with "Adobe Standard V2" selected it gives me a small error notice in the profile settings.

After some testing I would like to offer that I have found a sample NEF from a Nikon Z7 running firmware NIKON Z7 Ver.01.00 that does not seem to have the magenta shift issues when using "NIKON Z 7 Adobe Standard.dcp" The sample file that *Todd Shaner posted that firmware is NIKON Z7 Ver.01.02 does have the issues with that DCP. I have reproduced my issues with files from a Nikon Z6 camera having the magenta shift when "Nikon Z 6 Adobe Standard.dcp" is applied with my own Z6 running Ver.01.01 and Ver.03.00. I found a file from a Z6 running "NIKON Z6 Ver.01.00" and unlike the Z7 of the same version number it had the same issue. (Both files are linked below and all firmware version names are as Lightroom displayed them)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Pb2GYbF02Wd4CJCf19tZwfU8T4s2az2l

https://img.photographyblog.com/reviews/nikon_z7/photos/nikon_z7_05.nef

One last question is are there files that "Nikon Z 6 Adobe Standard.dcp" does not produce the magenta shift for? Would there be any harm in renaming the DCP files for the moment?

There may be an issue. The cause thus far is an assumption.
Have you created a custom profile?
Ignore the CTT numbers.
Do tweak tint/temp for desired rendering.

Hi, Andrew,

Whatever the technical reasons behind it doesn't change the practical consequences. On the Z7, when you change the white balance to anything other than "As Shot" it introduces a magenta color cast that requires a manual fix. I'm not aware of any other camera that requires this. 

With the Z6, there was originally the same or a similar problem. Adobe corrected that issue by updating the profile to a version 2 profile, which is the current default profile for the Z6. You can experience the original Z6 issues yourself by loading a Z6 file into Lightroom and then enabling the original profiles and comparing  a virtual copy developed with the original profile to the virtual copy using the version 2 Z6 profile. 

I hope this helps you see what the issue is.

Further data points on WB and profiles here:

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=80130.msg646523#msg646523

The whole reason that Thomas Knoll designed Camera Raw to have two separate DNG profiles; one for Standard Illuminate A (2856oK) and a different profile for D65 was to account for the differences in the sensor's response under those two SPDs. Note that this isn't about correcting for white balance...DNG profiles are designed to correct for different spectral responses AFTER white balance has been corrected.

Jeff Schewe:
Actually, if you think about it, you really WOULDN'T want a DNG profile to alter the white balance of an image...that would seriously limit the usefulness of that profile. DNG profiles are designed to adjust the color and tone rendering of a given camera's spectral response. However, white balance is a shot by shot situation.
 
So, DNG profiles specifically DON'T take white balance into consideration. If they did, you could only use that profile for single white balance situations. The whole camera profiling issue is made far more complex that profiling a printer. You need a camera profile that allows color and tone adjustments over a broader range of light sources...compared to a printer that should remain consistent given a specific paper and printer setting.

There are so many misunderstandings just above I don't know where to start.
1. Nikon Z7 NEF reference image shot with electronic flash that is approximately 5500K: meaningless value as CCT defines a huge range of possible colors running along the lines of correlated color temp.



2. The numbers are from the camera (as shot), metadata from a device that isn't designed to measure the spectrum (a Spectroradiometer could). It's basically a guess providing a number that defines a huge number of possible colors. 
3. The camera metadata reported could be a 'mile off' but ACR/LR and all other raw converters only report this range based on what they are provided and as such: GIGO:Garbage In Garbage Out! 
4. Each camera profile can take that value and report differing values as explainedexpalined by Eric. Again for you to attempt to read and decipher:

"scaling the camera-native RGB coordinates till the desired values are neutral (i.e., R = G = B). This scaling, along with the color matrix in the profile, are effectively responsible for transforming from the camera-native RGB color coordinates -- which vary from model to model"

A bogus value or visible result is as likely from the camera itself as anything else. As yet, NO ONE here has proven this is specifically an Adobe 'bug', profile 'bug' or Nikon bug. It could be any or all three. 

The solution until further proof is defined is simple: season to taste, ignore the numbers, set WB (like it's been designed) using the tools provided in the raw processor to render a WB rendering the image creator desires. 

As for Adobe creating new profiles no. You can and should do this yourself for each camera as they vary and the reason we have simple but effective TOOLS to build custom DCP camera profiles that AGAIN by design, are WB agnostic. 

The solution is to set WB AS DESIRED.

Following your suggestion download the below Nikon Z7 NEF reference image shot with electronic flash that is approximately 5500K. Select the "desired" Daylight WB preset. You should now see 5500 Temp and +10 Tint WB settings, which is Adobe's reference target for Daylight. The image WB now has a strong magenta tint. Next use the WB eyedropper on the colorchecker neutral patch in the below image file. The WB settings are now 5000 Temp and -32 Tint.  That's -500 Temp and -42 Tint, which is way off from Adobe's target 5500 Temp and 10 Tint Daylight preset settings! I don't have any reference files shot with tungsten lighting so can't check those settings, but Adobe's reference target is 2850 Temp and 0 Tint.

I checked CCPP files shot with my Canon EOS cameras (300D, 600D, 5D MKII, 6D) at noon with no clouds  and the Adobe Standard WB eyedropper sampling of the neutral patches are within 5500±500 Temp and 10±5 Tint.

The only solution to achieve the same degree of normalization with the Z7 camera files is for Adobe to create new v2 camera profiles.

BTW- When I create custom camera profiles using a CCPP the eyedropper sampled WB settings are often slightly different than with the Adobe camera profiles. It's usually not a large difference (±200 Temp ±10 Tint), but enough to be visible. I use the DNG Profile Editor's WB Calibration controls (posted in an earlier screenshot) to make them identical. That way when I change camera profiles during editing the WB doesn't change.

https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-z7/Z7hSLI000100NR0.NEF.HTM

The solution is to set WB AS DESIRED.

Following your suggestion download the below Nikon Z7 NEF reference image shot with electronic flash that is approximately 5500K. Select the "desired" Daylight WB preset. You should now see 5500 Temp and +10 Tint WB settings, which is Adobe's reference target for Daylight. The image WB now has a strong magenta tint. Next use the WB eyedropper on the colorchecker neutral patch in the below image file. The WB settings are now 5000 Temp and -32 Tint.  That's -500 Temp and -42 Tint, which is way off from Adobe's target 5500 Temp and 10 Tint Daylight preset settings! I don't have any reference files shot with tungsten lighting so can't check those settings, but Adobe's reference target is 2850 Temp and 0 Tint.

I checked CCPP files shot with my Canon EOS cameras (300D, 600D, 5D MKII, 6D) at noon with no clouds  and the Adobe Standard WB eyedropper sampling of the neutral patches are within 5500±500 Temp and 10±5 Tint.

The only solution to achieve the same degree of normalization with the Z7 camera files is for Adobe to create new v2 camera profiles.

BTW- When I create custom camera profiles using a CCPP the eyedropper sampled WB settings are often slightly different than with the Adobe camera profiles. It's usually not a large difference (±200 Temp ±10 Tint), but enough to be visible. I use the DNG Profile Editor's WB Calibration controls (posted in an earlier screenshot) to make them identical. That way when I change camera profiles during editing the WB doesn't change.

https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-z7/Z7hSLI000100NR0.NEF.HTM