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P: Nikon Z7 RAW processing and White Balance

Forum|Forum|6 years ago
August 15, 2019
64 replies
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A couple of problems with the camera profiles for the Nikon Z7.

1. When changing the white balance from "As Shot" in Adobe Lightroom or Camera RAW, the program creates a magenta cast on all Nikon Z7 images. This is true for all Adobe white balances and all the camera white balances. Returning the Tint slider to its original location removes almost all the magenta cast that was introduced. I believe this was an issue that was fixed for the Z6.

2. There's something wrong with the way that Adobe is reading or applying the Built-in Lens Profile. It seems to apply the corrections correctly for the Z lenses, but when using adapted F-mount lenses the profile isn't applied even though Lightroom claims that it is. If you manually apply the profile for the F-mount lens, it gets applied correctly. This also impacts stitching in panoramic photos. I can get a perfect stitch from a D850 with the same lens whereas using the same properly adjusted for the camera/lens RRS pano system and same lens with a Z7, the stitch is poor. It gets better after manually turning on the lens profile for each image in the stitch.

Running the 8/14/19 release of Lightroom Classic/Camera RAW.

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TheDigitalDog

Inspiring

The profile doesn't affect WB but reports the values differently than other profiles based on Erics explanation.
The solution is to set WB AS DESIRED.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

Todd Shaner

Legend

Andrew, clearly the current Nikon Z7 Adobe Standard camera profile affects the 'As Shot' WB settings as the other users and I reported above. The Z6 Adobe Standard profile had the same issue, which was fixed by Adobe creating a new Adobe Standard v2 profile. So it is possible for the camera profile to affect the WB settings inside LR in a very deleterious manner.

"That explains why the WB is changing when Copy & Paste Adobe Standard (from any camera raw file). The Temp & Tint numbers change (EX- 5100 -5 to 4950 -55), but the WB does NOT change."

The profile may be WB agnostic, but clearly it can affect the WB settings causing the 'As Shot' and WB presets (Daylight, Cloud, etc.) to apply incorrect WB to the image. That's the issue being reported here!

So what do you think is the cause of this issue and what do you suggest is the correct solution?

TheDigitalDog

Inspiring

You're not adding anything to the profile! No more than if you alter Tint/Temp. These are just additional sliders. Again, the profiles themselves are utterly WB agnostic by design. Here's what Eric Chan of Adobe explains about the profiles, the processing order and their separation by design of WB:

Eric Chan on DCP Profiles and WB:
”The processing order is roughly as follows. DNG color profiles contain at least a color matrix, and (optionally) one or more lookup tables, and (optionally) a tone curve. So at the minimum, there is a color matrix applied during image processing. This is applied very early in the imaging pipeline, while the image data is known to be in a linear, scene-referred space. The optional lookup tables and tone curve follow, and can be used to correct problem colors and residual issues, and apply a desired scene-to-output mapping.

Regarding white balance: It is applied along with the color matrix, i.e., very early. You can think of it as scaling the camera-native RGB coordinates till the desired values are neutral (i.e., R = G = B). This scaling, along with the color matrix in the profile, are effectively responsible for transforming from the camera-native RGB color coordinates -- which vary from model to model -- to a colorimetrically-defined system: CIE XYZ with a D50 white point, in the case of the DNG and ICC models. The user's chosen white balance is applied during this matrix step.

For example, if your chosen WB is Temp = 7500 K and you're using an Adobe Standard profile, then the DNG profile model calls for using the D65 color matrix. On the other hand, if your chosen WB for an image is Temp = 5200 K, then you'll be using a blend of the A and D65 matrices, with the latter more heavily weighted (since it's closer to D65 than to A). The DNG spec goes into more details on how this is done.

So to answer the question of WB and it's relevance to building & using DNG profiles: in principle, the applicability of a profile with a given WB has to do with how close the spectrum of the scene illuminant (used to photograph your real image) is to the spectrum of the illuminant used to build the profile. The closer they are, the better the results. Many flavors of natural daylight are spectrally similar (weighted differently), so this is why a daylight profile tends to work well in many flavors of daylight regardless of the actual CCT (e.g., 4700 K thru 7500 K). So even if you built your own profile under real daylight that ended up being around 6200 K, you should not hesitate to use such a profile under other similar daylight conditions, even if the CCT values vary a lot. But if you end up using a very different type of light (e.g., a fluorescent tube) then you should effect quite different, possibly unpleasant results, even if the CCT measures the same (e.g., a 6000 K office fluorescent tube).”

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

Todd Shaner

Legend

Correct, but you can add a WB calibration in the profile, which creates an offset in the Tint and Temp values like what is happening here.

TheDigitalDog

Inspiring

Camera profiles by design are WB agnostic. You are supposed to season to taste.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

Todd Shaner

Legend

Actually the Z7 WB issue appears to be the same as the Z6. An Adobe v2 profile is also most likely required to fix the Z7 WB issue.
When you Copy & Paste the Nikon D500 (or any other camera model) 'Adobe Standard' profile LR looks for a matching profile for the target camera. Note the D500 profile spelling–No v2. Therefore the Z6 Adobe Standard profile is selected and assigned.

bryanh72432487Author

Known Participant

This should probably be its own thread because this thread is Z7 specific issues.

But it seems to me that during a copy and paste Lightroom is defaulting to version 1 of profiles instead of the most recent version. That's probably a bug if the latest version was developed to fix a problem with the original.

Todd Shaner

Legend

If Lightroom is applying the original version of the profile, it would appear magenta. The version 2 corrected the issue with the Z6.

Bingo. That explains why the WB is changing when Copy & Paste Adobe Standard (from any camera raw file). The Temp & Tint numbers change (EX- 5100 -5 to 4950 -55), but the WB does NOT change. *Josh Barber must also be Copying & Pasting the WB settings, which would over-ride the WB setting for the v2 profile. Try it for yourself on a Nikon Z6 file. Assign 'As Shot' WB and Adobe Standard v2 and note the WB Temp and Tint settings. Next select the Adobe Standard profile (v1) and you will see a large change in the WB settings, but no change in actual WB.

bryanh72432487Author

Known Participant

The Z6 has two profiles -- the original and the version 2. If Lightroom is applying the original version of the profile, it would appear magenta. The version 2 corrected the issue with the Z6.

TheDigitalDog

Inspiring

How do you know which actual profile is being pasted, the one for the 'other' camera or the one for the 'actual' camera???

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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