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johnrellis
Legend
June 17, 2011

P: Can't clear caption in JPEG exported from master imported with a caption

  • June 17, 2011
  • 22 replies
  • 863 views

You can't clear a caption in a JPEG exported from a master that was imported with a pre-existing caption (e.g. from an annoying Olympus camera).   Even after clearing the caption in the Metadata panel, the exported JPEG will still contain the pre-existing caption. 

 

For JPEG masters, the workaround is to do Metadata > Save Metadata To File after clearing the caption, but this doesn't work for raws.  For raws, you must set the caption to a non-blank value, e.g. "-".

 

This bug was reported at least as far back as LR 3, and it continues to annoy users with Olympus cameras.  (Up until recently, Olympus insisted on setting EXIF:ImageDescription to "OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA".)

 

See here for recent complaints:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic/lightroom-cc-fills-in-description-field-on-export/m-p/11987182#M229579 

 

To reproduce:

 

1. Download an Olympus raw and JPEG from here:

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/3959253679/olympus-e-pl9-sample-gallery/5069314962

 

2. Use Exiftool to observe that the raw and JPEG have EXIF:ImageDescription set to "OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA":

 

exiftool -a -G -imagedescription -caption-abstract -description P3010036.ORF 5069314962.jpg

 

3. Import the raw and JPEG into LR.

 

4. Observe that the Metadata panel shows the non-blank captions for both.

 

5. Uncheck the option Catalog Settings > Metadata > Automatically Write Changes Into XMP.

 

6. In the Metadata panel, clear the Caption field of the raw and JPEG.

 

7. Export the raw and JPEG as JPEGs, with the options Include: All Metadata and Remove Person Info and Remove Location Info unchecked, Write Keywords As Lightroom Hierarchy checked.

 

8. Use Exiftool to observe that EXIF:ImageDescription, IPTC:Caption-Abstract, and XMP:Description are all set to the original caption, "OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA" (bug).

 

9. Do Metadata > Save Metadata To File for the raw and JPEG.

 

10. Re-export the raw and JPEG.

 

11. Use Exiftool to observe that the JPEG exported from the raw still has the original caption in  EXIF:ImageDescription, IPTC:Caption-Abstract, and XMP:Description (bug), while those fields are blank in the exported JPEG (correct).


Test in LR 10.2 / Mac OS 11.2.3.

This topic has been closed for replies.

22 replies

dfranzen_camera_raw
Adobe Employee
Adobe Employee
June 18, 2011
HI Mark,

I happen to have an Olympus and Nikon cameras handy that always (the Oly) or optionally (the Nikon) set ImageDescription, Artist or Copyright, and I will try this in Camera Raw 6.4.1, first with camera original JPEGs, and saving out JPEGs.

This may be Lr specific, but we'll see! The way to I will try to reproduce this w/ ACR (I think) is to edit the property in Bridge's metadata panel, then open in ACR and use the Save Image feature. In this case two different operations occur. First, ACR works as a "Changer" (in MWG terms) and should update the file. Then when we open the JPEG in ACR to save a new JPEG, it's acting as a "Creator." I would expect the property to be deleted in the first step, and not to magically reappear when create the new, derived, file. It's a bit trickier in Lr, because one has to test at least two cases: forcing Lr to write-back the metadata edit before Export and leaving the orignal unchanged before export. Also, it's important to try this using different Export options to see if that makes a difference.
Known Participant
June 17, 2011
The new metadata engine in LR 3.4 does not gracefully handle the case where a metadata field is populated in the original source file, but a mapped metadata field is empty in Lightroom's Metadata panel.

By "mapped metadata field", I mean the fields which are represented in two or more of EXIF, IPTC/IIM, and XMP. See the chart on page 21 of MWG guidance 2.0. Examples:

  • EXIF ImageDescription, IPTC Caption, XMP dc:Description

  • EXIF Artist, IPTC By-line, XMP dc:creator

  • EXIF Copyright, IPTC CopyrightNotice, XMP dc:Rights


To recreate:
(1) Import a file that has a value in a mapped metadata field. Many cameras can put something in EXIF Copyright, EXIF Artist. Some, such as many Sony and Olympus cameras, always (and rather annoyingly) put something in EXIF ImageDescription.
(2) In Lightroom's Metadata panel, note that this original data has been mapped to the corresponding fields as expected.
(3) Empty those fields.
(4) Export the file.

Expected behavior: The exported file should have nothing in all of the mapped fields or the fields should not be present at all.

Actual behavior: The original EXIF field is still present with its original value. The mapped fields are not present.

This is incorrect -- the guidance says that they should be mapped together, but Lightroom is creating files in which they are not.

Also, the guidance says on page 29, "A string property that is comprised of only spaces or only nul characters MUST be treated as non-existent." I think it's likely that this phrase is meant to be considered by the Consumer, not the Creator/Changer -- but I think it's reasonable to consider that the now-empty UI field is a meaningful value that should be mapped to all corresponding fields.

This is only a problem for mapped fields. In cases where LR does not present a mutable field in the Metadata panel, it makes sense to copy the data from the original to the export.

FWIW, LR 3.3 handled this correctly, which made Olympus and Sony users much happier. They could apply a metadata preset on Import which emptied the Caption, so the annoying camera-generated value was not present on export.

I suspect this problem also exists in Camera Raw 6.4, but have not verified this. It also probably doesn't happen in Lightroom if Limit File Size is checked when exporting JPEGs, because Limit File Size doesn't use the new metadata engine.