P: Smart Objects: Auto-convert JPGs to PSD

I just found this thread because I too have found unexpected behavior with SmartObject saving in Photoshop 13.1 (CS6). I am editing a jpg that was converted to a smartobject, to delete the background of the image. naturally this involves making it a true layer to have transparency. then, I press CMD-S as I have done for years. And where formerly PS would smartly update the original placed object, now I get a "save as" box, defaulting to Temporary Items. I allow it to save, but then the original object is NOT updated. This is counter-intuitive, and not how it worked in CS3. I wish it would be fixed! thank you...

Glad I could help you understand more about Photoshop.

I see... I've checked and you're absolutely right, Chris: once the file has gone at least once through the JPG compression dialog, it "remembers" it. JPGs that come straight from a digital camera (when shooting JPG), or that have been originated from a LR jpg export operation, are the ones that cause the JPG compression options to appear - it makes sense since they haven't gone through PS yet.

I didn't know the jpg compression was being kept in the jpg metadata. I can't stand not knowing the exact reason for something happening inside Lightroom or Photoshop, and I love learning this kind of things, so I've truly truly enjoyed your answer a lot. Also thank you for your answer being so quick (even on Sunday!). Have a great day!!

The JPEG compression options get saved in the Photoshop specific data inside the JPEG file. If that data is there, and you're doing a "save" we can skip the compression options dialog. If that data is missing (like if you used SFW without metadata, or metadata was removed by another program), then we have to prompt with the options.

Sorry, STUPID ME, it's not the "Save as" that gets displayed - it's just the jpg compression option!! I would swear it was the other way around but I just checked again. After choosing the compression, it saves (no "save as") and the smart object gets updated, so everything seems to be fine. Please excuse me for formulating the wrong question, but I would have sworn it was the save as dialog that was getting shown.

Even so, the rest of what I just said stays the same: some files always show it (the first time I'm saving) while others never do. Is there some reason for this?

Just a question - as I said some months ago, I was having the feeling that the "Save as" dialog was appearing without apparent justification every now and then. Now I have decided to investigate the issue a little further, and definitely there's something going on that I'm not aware of: let's say I drag and drop a JPG file to my document, and I have it automatically converted to a smart object layer.
Then I can double clic it, edit it and, as far as I don't go outside the jpg limitations (namely, having just the background layer when saving the document), everything is fine and I can go back to my original document and see the changes reflected there.

What I have found out is that some jpg files allow for this behavior, while others always pop up the "Save as dialog". The only modification I am doing (for testing purposes) is clicking with the brush tool in the background layer.

Then I hit Ctrl+S (File/Save) and as I say, even though I'm doing exactly the same kind of modification, it turns out that some jpgs never display the save as dialog when doing this (everything goes fine), while others always display the "Save as". Of course, if I carry on and "save as", the jpg gets unlinked from my main document and I am not able to update it anyway (I have also tried to add a layer and re-flatten to a background layer before saving to no avail).

Since this behavior is 100% consistent depending on the file I chose, I assume there's a logic for it, some reason (color space? file name? some option that was checked at the time the original jpg was created?), but I haven't been able to find the answer. Of course, it could also be something is not working in my computer, but I will try to check it on my laptop too.

I'm asking out of curiosity more than anything, since I already stopped using jpgs as smart object when some time ago I started noticing strange things happening, but it irks me to know that there must be some explanation that I simply am not aware of...

Thanks in advance for any insight on this matter.

No, this has always been an issue with smart objects -- if you save the child file to another filename or filetype, the association is lost. We even warn you about that when you first edit a child document.

This is not a bug, this is a limitation of smart objects and the way they work (by linking and embedding files).

This is no different than using linked files in InDesign and changing the name of a linked file - then the parent document can't find it.

I'm adding to this thread since I just upgraded from 5 to 5.1. Just so people know, the "save as" dialog started occurring after that upgrade. I never had a problem with jpg smart objects before that.

Just so we're clear, the "save as" dialog box is a BUG that Adobe needs to fix quickly. There should never be a dialog box, ever after saving a smart object and regardless if the image is a jpg or not.

Adobe, fix this problem! Until then, I'm asking my IT guy to downgrade me to photoshop 5.

I think that you are misunderstanding, Edward, so let's go through what you are doing step by step..

- when you add the JPG by drag-drop, whether as smart object or not, it becomes a part of the original PSD Photoshop file.

- if you set auto-convert or manually converted the added layer to a Smart Object, that just allows non-destructive adjustments to that layer. The original JPG source is always present.

- Now, if you edit that source, the layer is broken out temporarily as another Photoshop file -- in a temp area. You then edit that temporary file.

- Photoshop could do many things to the file. Let's say you add an adjustment layer. Now there are two layers in the Photoshop image, and it can't be a JPG any more if saved.

- This is why the dialog when you first asked to edit the Smart Object source warned you: it says that if you get a Save As dialog when closing it, then you must _flatten_ the modified source. After flattening, so that there is now again only one layer which includes your adjustment, you will be able to simply Save, which will update the temporary file.

- Once you have successfully Saved and closed the temporary, you see it back in the original Photoshop file, automatically. The modifications will show.

Edward, that is how Photoshop has worked, I think, up to CS6, which I just installed. CS6 is able to use multiple layers for the temporary, and indeed hidden within the Smart Object. At least it is able to do this with all the types of layers I've tried adding when editing the Smart Object source. It still gives the warning dialog about flattening if you get the Save As dialog on trying to close the edit, so there may be some remaining cases where it acts the old way.

In any case, you see the principle now? At least up to PS CS6, you have to have your edited source flattened so it can be saved in the original JPG form. That's the rule, and then Photoshop will automatically retrieve the edited temporary file once it is closed, merging the result back as the now-modified source for the original Smart Object.

Regards.

I found this randomly while searching for an explanation as to why CS6 keeps opening the "save as" dialog everytime I update and save the contents of an smart object. I don't know iF something changed from cs5 to cs6 in this regard, but strangely enough, I don't recall having this trouble before. Maybe I was being lucky?
Anyway, thanks to you I've found out that including a jpg as smart object via dragging or replacing smart object contents is the culprit of the "save as" dialog appearing everytime. Honestly, I don't really understand the explanation (I mean, I get it, but... come on, I think "smart" objects should be a little smarter in this regard, shouldn't they? Or at least include some warning) but nevermind, at least now I know how to prevent this issue from happening. THANKS!