Webworks TOC doesn't generate from Frame 7.2

Sean-WWeP Pro 9.0 for FrameMaker was released in late October 2005 and this date is from their Sales manager from an email directly to me. WWeP Pro 9.0 was late for over 6 months. Give me the links to these pages that calls out the dates and I will pass it on to Sales.

If you re-read my comments, I never talked about the full version of webworks 8 TOC mapping.

So, who is this "Sharon" you keep talking about? How easy it is to forget Alice, she is the one we are trying to help.

Also you said "to a contractor who has WWP 8 SE, the full version, so the mappings for the TOC are set up correctly." Which one are you suggesting?

Qudralay does support the Standard Edition only when Adobe requests help.

Yes the freebe version of webworks is not context sensitive based on markers used in FrameMaker, however, if a programmer knows the html name of the file, and that file never is updated or rebuild (name may change), it will act as context sensitive help.

Yes, seems that each release of Webworks has had issues with previous templates what is the final help generated. One of the plus side to the new WWeP 9 is the ability to do online help from either a FrameMaker book or MS Word as long as you are willing to pay for the license. Like all software updates, there is a learning curve and incompatable issues.

Drivel, agreed. However, you'll have to make that change every time, as Sherman noted. But, yes, that's way.

This still does not get the TOC into the left frame, as Alice wants.

Alice, did you map your FrameMaker TOC.fm to FramesTOC.asp? (I think that's done in project > mapping. I don't know if you can do this in WWP SE, but that's how it's done in the full version. )

Also, am not sure which template Alice is using. I assume she's using the DHTML one. I am not sure what Alice means by "into the frameset version they show in the help system." Alice, are you trying to create the same kind of help that WWP itself uses? If so, that is WebWorks Help and I am pretty sure you cannot create it using WWP SE.

Let us know.

Cheers,

Sean

My suggestion on dealing with the TOC stands. All else is useless drivel. Good luck.

Hi Sherman,

My links are directly from Quadralay's site, and I've been working with WWP since version 4. I never said WWeP 9.2 was a year old, I said WWeP 9 was. Quadralay claims on their Website that WWeP 9 is 14 months old, as shown by the link I provided. WWP 2003, also called WWP 8, really was released in 2003, and it really has been end-of-lifed by Quadralay. WWP SE, the limited export filter, is new to FM 7.2, yes, and WWP 7 SE preceded it, yes, but it's limited functionality and based on an old product. Also, since you received WWP 8, full version, from Quadralay by contract, I am surprised you don't know how WWP 8 (non SE) handles TOCs without using the FM TOC file. (You should check that out, it makes things a lot easier.)

The trouble Sharon is having sounds like the typical Adobe-Quadralay mixup. Quadralay doesn't support SE, Adobe does, and Adobe doesn't know how. The method for setting the TOC, which I described, is really how WWP 8--the full version--works. If this does not work in WWP 8 SE, as you state, then that's a serious limitation of the product -- and it sounds like Sharon is stuck. Perhaps she can outsource the creation of a DHTML template to a contractor who has WWP 8 SE, the full version, so the mappings for the TOC are set up correctly.

As you note, there are differences between WWP SE and the full product. WWP SE is a freebie. WWP SE is decontented. WWP SE cannot, for example, be used to create WebWorks Help. It can create only a subset of the help formats that the full version can create. I continue to believe, now more than ever, that WWP SE is an HTML export filter and nothing more. If you want to create online help from FrameMaker, it really pays to buy the full WWP product--this route will save you time, effort, and frustration over the long run.

One route for a company looking to save money would have been to use one seat of WWP 8, full edition, to create the online help templates, and then use WWP 8 SE for other seats to create the content -- within the constraints of the help types supported by WWP 8 SE (so not WebWorks Help, as mentioned, nor CHM, HLP, etc.). However, since WWP 8 (full version) has been end-of-lifed, you are stuck buying WWeP 9, which will not work with WWP 8 SE in a collaborative environment.

Regards,

Sean

Bill-read my last reply, Sean's was not on the money, as you stated. Webworks Standard Edition v7 came with FrameMaker 7.x.x, and was replaced by Webworks Standard Edition 8 when FrameMaker 7.2 was released. Although they create a webworks help, they are not identical when it come time to make changes to File Properties. There are other difference between the two WebWorks standard Editions.

The blank page in the TOC is not a problem I have, my TOC is working, it is Alice that has the problem, and I only able to verify it. You said that the way to get rid of the blan page was to delete it, sound good, what happens when you do an Update all, isn't that page going to be replaced?

Yes Webworks does not support the Standard Edition directly as they do if you buy the full version, but Adobe will contact Webworks on problems if you contact Adobe tech support or have a service contract with Adobe.

Again, I'm not having problems, and am not struggling. Yes having the full version would give me more control of my help project, but I don't control approvals or money with 60,000 employees. I get paid big bucks for what I do, and do not account for my hours.

Sean:

All I was trying to do is help Alice solve her problem on the version of Webworks she asked about. Since she hasn't jointed in in our debate, she either solved her problem, has not re-opened the forum or gave up.

Guess I don't believe you or your links. Webworks Publisher Standard Edition Version 8.0.5337.0 does haave a Copyright date of 2005 and is not an end of product. The company I worked for started with Webworks 6.x.x over 5 years ago, and had maintenance contracts ever since. Thus I have had every release, includeing tose that came with the Adobe FrameMaker CDs.

I contacted Webworks sales manager this afternoon and WebWorks ePublisher Pro 9.0 for FrameMaker was released in late October (2005), but printed docs and CDs were not available until mid December. Version 9.2 was release June 26, 2006 Webworks is no longer shipping printed docs. The updated docs are now available in our download center in PDF format. Delivery of the software is electronic unless a CD is required.

I accept your profound apologies, and have offered help based on only the Software Alice uses.

Alice/Sherman,

It sounds like there's something being mapped to a new page in your TOC (perhaps a heading or something). Since you are not compiling a Help file, and since you are limited in what you can do with the Standard edition by design, I think the simplest approach is, if you cannot determine why the blank initial TOC page is being put there, to delete the blank page from your output and be done with it.

As you know, WWP Standard is not supported by Quadralay, given it's an add-on for FrameMaker purchased by Adobe, and is also not supported by Adobe. It's a very limited conversion utility. I'd argue that this was by design for an up-sell on the Professional version, which you can always purchase at "upgrade" pricing from Standard. True, it may be out of your budget, but if you're struggling this much with a "free" tool, it may be cheaper to buy the upgrade. It all depends on how much your time is worth to your company.

To answer the questions of vintage, Sean's on the money, and yes, you don't have to believe him (but you should). Your Standard version of WWP 8 is likely date stamped 2005 because it had to be updated to work with FM 7.2. But, the application indeed does date back to 2003.

FWIW,

Bill

Sherman, I'm just trying to help. Take it or leave it.

>The current full version of Webworks is called WebWoks ePublisher Pro 9.2. WWeP was released in December 2005 and is not even a year old.

WWeP, aka WWP 9, aka the version after WWP 2003, was released in about June/July 2005. You don't have to believe me. See http://www.intranetstoday.com/Articles/?ArticleID=5730.

WWP 8 is also called WWP 2003. Why? Well, not because it was released in 2005. Honest. You don't have to believe me. See http://www.webworks.com/support:

>WebWorks Publisher 2003 Product Line End-of-Life Announcement:

>As of July 1, 2006, WebWorks Publisher Professional 2003 and associated 2003 products were retired. This is more than 3 years after the 2003 product line was originally released. With the successful launch of WebWorks ePublisher Pro more than a year ago, and the recent release of WebWorks ePublisher Express in July, it was necessary to end the 2003 product line so that our development and support resources could more effectively serve the needs of our customers.

As I said, I don't have WWP 8 SE and I was offering my thoughts based on using the full product.

Please accept my profound apologies if the time I spent trying to help was wasted; I intended no dishonesty by that.

All the best,

Sean

Sean--You points are will noted if you use webworks Standard Edion v8. Since I do have specific template requirements, I do use the TOC. By the way I have used the full versions of Webworks for the last 5 years for commercial newspaper publishing software. Because of the cost of WWeP, the current company I work for has not purchased the full version, thus the use of both WW Standard Edition 7 and 8. And by the way, I am using everything that the Standard edition allows by modifying the *.Asp files, using mappings and even creating addition buttons of the screen to call up addition resources. The things I have done are not documented in the Standard vesions.

I lagain looked through the complete online help that installs with Webworks Standard edition v8, and no were does your quote on what Webworks 8 Standard edition does regarding TOC exist. Even a serach on TOC or Table of Contents turn up your quote. Since you admit that you do not have WWP 8 SE, where does this quote come from?

To verify your rebuttal, I went and build a new Webworks HTML document (using a current working FrameMaker (v7.2)document) from scratch using the Standard Edition of Webworks v8. I excepted all defaults and have to report that Yes there is NO TOC found in V8.0, and like Alice's problem, there is not topics in the TOC, it's blank as she discovered.
To see what happens when a TOC is added to Webwoks project, I added my TOC from my FrameMaker document and did an Update All. The TOC page was still blank, but the next page was the missing TOC. To verify this problem, I deleted the TOC, did an Update all, and the TOC page was blank again, and the second page was my change page/cover. I added the TOC from my FrameMaker document and ended up with the TOC again blank and second page the TOC.

It should be noted that the Standard version v8, has a folder under the "Navigation Files" called IX.html and TOC.html. The IX.html is a valid html and is the index, the TOC.html is the blank TOC Alice sees.

To double check that I didn't make a mistake, I deleted the webworks files and started over again to create a help project.Although I didn't noice the pop-up message, webworks does ask about a TOC. Results, alid TOC, blank again. Alice is right!

Last, there is no way to map the TOC in the mapping page of the Standard Edition v8, it has a "?" and can not be modified. Thus your 3 steps will not help Alice.

One additional point, the Strandard Edition v8 of Webworks is copyrighted 2005, and is not 3 years old. The current full version of Webworks is called WebWoks ePublisher Pro 9.2. WWeP was released in December 2005 and is not even a year old.

Sherman. You think so? I don't have WWP 8 SE, so, maybe you're right. Perhaps it's a limitation of WWP 8 and WWP 7 SE. Perhaps you're not using all the features of the product.

From the WWP 7 online help:

>With version 7, the TOC and index files in a new project can be automatically moved to the correct position; you no longer need to rearrange these files after creating a new project. See Setting book handling options.

>Using the Automatically reorder the TOC and IX option, you can configure WebWorks Publisher to automatically ensure that the generated table of contents is added as the first file in your project and the generated index is added as the last file, regardless of where these files may appear in your FrameMaker book file. To ensure that the TOC and index files are located correctly in your project, this option is enabled by default in the templates included with WebWorks Publisher.

Maybe you are not using that feature?

As for WWP 8, it can run in WWP 7 mode. Am not sure why you'd do that, but perhaps you are not using WWP 8's native TOC handling?

Again, from the online help:

>It is easier than ever to generate TOCs and indexes for your online output. WebWorks Publisher now generates the online TOC and index based on the heading tags and index markers in your FrameMaker documents; the generated FrameMaker TOC and index are no longer used. As a result, you no longer need to map paragraphs to the TOC1-TOC5 styles and it is no longer necessary to maintain separate page templates for the TOC and index (TOC.asp and Index.asp). Furthermore, it is no longer necessary to generate/update your FrameMaker book file before generating output from your WebWorks Publisher project.

Now, if you are running in WWP 7 mode, then ... you get WWP 7 features.

To the issue at hand. I don't have WWP 8 SE. As I have said before, WWP SE is an HTML export filter and NOT an online help authoring tool. That being said, here's how WWP 8 (non SE) handles TOCs:

1) Start a new project from SCRATCH. Do not migrate or otherwise bring forward a WWP 7 project.

2) Import your FM book into WWP 8.

3) When you are mapping your styles, there is an "In TOC" column in the mapping page. For each and every style in WWP, you can select a number from the "In TOC" column. I recommend trying "1" for your heading 1 style, "2" for your heading 2 style, but not selecting an "In TOC" value for things like body text, as you probably don't want body text in your TOC.

That is, you are mapping your FM heading tags to WWP heading styles AND you are selecting an "In TOC" value for those tags.

For further help, checkout http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwp-users (disclaimer: I am a co-moderator of that list). Although, the list deals mostly with non-SE versions of WWP and lately focuses more on WWeP, since WWP 8 is over three years old and WWeP (aka WWP 9) has been around over a year.

Regards,

Sean