Adding fold marks to flat pieces

I think Richard [in one of his earlier post] is referring to "Large" as one document page that is constructed to flat size as opposed to multiple facing pages [as a spread] where the page represents a panel of a multi-fold piece. And "Large" is not oversized to flat size to accomodate fold marks.

I would agree, except there are plenty of one sided pocket folders, and we call it "flat size" until folded and/or trimmed. I don't see the advantage of using the master page to indicate the folds, as they will not be the same for the front and back on a trifold, except as I mentioned previously.

I'm with Sandee, it is the way I work (and worked for a long time). Use bleed and if needed slug.

OK, this is how I would handle any folded project:

First, I look at the
b PAGE
as the trim for the piece of paper which will be folded to become the brochure. (We may think of the folded areas as pages, but I don't think of them that way.)

There are always two pages to a folder project: The
b front
and the
b back
pages.

I would set up my two pages as the final trim size.

Then, I would specify a bleed for the document.

I would probably use the master page to designate the fold marks (as guides) as well as safety areas for type.

I might use text frames on the master page if I needed text to flow from one folded area to another. It depends on the purpose of the brochure and the text layout.

Finally, if I needed to indicate where the folds were for the client I would specify to print guides in the PDF. Although if I had a particularly brain-dead client (I know, redundancy), I might draw dotted fold lines down the master page to indicate where these folds would be.

But that would not be what I would send to the print service provider. For them I would use the bleed and/or slug area to indicate where the folds should be.

Because the page is the size of the trim, these fold marks can float anywhere the proper placement should be. (I would have gotten the fold mark placement AHEAD of time from the print service provider. I would NEVER try to anticipate where those folds should fall by myself. I know better!)

I feel this workflow is the proper technique for a designer or production person and winds up with a document that is most adaptable for the needs of the print service provider.

Sandy, when you said "You can keep the original ID file at the trim size" I read that to mean the final size of the folded brochure, which would be fine in some cases, and not in others.

Maybe I'm missing something, but in none of these cases does the artboard need to be oversized.

Use of a large bleed or slug will create a printable area for fold marks.

Richard, that seems to be backwards. Normally my clients don't want to see [and are totally ignorant of the purpose] of fold marks. So PDF proofs are sent to them with no bleeds, no crops, no folds, etc. And the final print PDF will have bleeds, crops and folds.

I'm not making myself clear which is my own fault. Late night brain fog. I oversimplified my answer.

When I design a brochure for a client I create an 11 x 8.5 document and do my thing. I create a layer with fold marks so client can see them on proofs. At press, I turn them off. I then send the job to the printer with just crops. I use the same handful of printers so they know my files are extremely consistent. Once in a while they will ask for a PDF with fold marks if an image or text appears too close to a fold.

For others, I dupe the file expand to 11 x 17. Put in my marks, fold marks, slug and any other pertinent information. Depends on the client. The vast majority of the time this is required by outside ad agencies who hire us for design work.

Sandee - your comment is about 70s workflow is odd. Almost without exception, any file I receive from an ad agency for printing is laid out on an oversize sheet. Drives me insane to get 7 business cards in 7 8.5 x 11 AI files. I may be exaggerating a bit but I would go as far as to say AI files outnumber ID files 10 to 1. Letterheads and envelopes in two separate 11 x 17 AI files. Additionally, as mentioned above, when I design for the agency they specify the files be AI with crops, slug, etc.

The only thing I ever use AI for is logos and vector art. The thing that made me switch to ID was that I didn't have to exit as often to use AI and PS as I did with Quark. Being a one man shop, the efficiency gains alone justified the switch.

If you are doing unconventional folds or if there are die cuts on the piece, it is extremely important to show this information clearly and precisely. This is where the oversize sheet comes in.

I would agree it's best to keep the document at trim size for a trifold brochure if it's an accordian fold, (or a 4 or 5 page for that matter). But for a barrel fold, one or more pages needs to be narrower than the cover, or it won't fold properly. This is an issue where an element must be exactly centered in one of the short pages, in this case, I would agree with Richard, unless I'm missing something.

Totally. There is no reason not to make your document size the trim size. (Unless you're using Illustrator, and Gods help you.)