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Question

Diversity and inclusion?

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
October 27, 2021
9 replies
4025 views

"To support core Adobe values of diversity and inclusion, the term Master page has been replaced with Parent page."

I do support equality in all it’s forms but I still think this is insanity.

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Dave Creamer of IDEAS

Community Expert

I suspect Adobe won't be changing this since they will start getting flak for caving in yet again. I would suggest everyone get use to a simple menu change and "move on". 🤣

David Creamer: Community Expert (ACI and ACE 1995-2023)

Tom Grz

Participating Frequently

This is complete insanity.

This is terminology, not racism or any other -ism.

The master page is the master. Nowhere does (did) InDesign refer to 'Slave' pages, just 'Insert Pages' from a master.

This is utter madness. Political correctness going WAY too far.

Instead of wasting time debating this and making the changes, why didn't Adobe fix the considerable amount of bugs in the latest InDesign 17 (2022)???

[abuse removed by moderator]

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thomasg88432121

Participating Frequently

They obviously care more about making traditional desktop software available on tiny displays for no reason and postulate they high moral standards.

Stop paying minimum wages would do more for society. Adobe became worse than Quark ever was.

L

Lumigraphics

Legend

Changing language use should be an adjunct to actual behavioral changes in society, not a substitute.

[remarks removed by moderator]

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thomasg88432121

Participating Frequently

With all respect, the three minor changes done to ID this year are the most pathetic updates in the history of ID.

BobLevine

Community Expert

UI Scaling on Windows is major. That you don't see the value doesn't mean nobody does.

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thomasg88432121

Participating Frequently

Sure. It's just not enough to relase a major verion. The new CC apps feel more like bugfix releases.

Let's see how long it takes till all older scripts break due to the new naming conventions.

Barb Binder

Community Expert

I'll be curious to see if Microsoft ends up renaming Slide Masters in Powerpoint.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/what-is-a-slide-master-b9abb2a0-7aef-4257-a14e-4329c904da54

~Barb

~Barb at Rocky Mountain Training

Dave Creamer of IDEAS

Community Expert

I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in most programs over time. (Except for Quark--they'll advertise "We STILL call them master pages--not like those other guys!". 😁

David Creamer: Community Expert (ACI and ACE 1995-2023)

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OMGItsMeSeriously

Participating Frequently

of course is insanity. this WOKE moviemnt has gone from do gooders to ridiculous!!!

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Eugene Tyson

Community Expert

Nobody ever said anything about it being WOKE except you.

If you cannot accept diversity and inclusion with a simple renaming of a feature then that says more about you than it does about Adobe.

John Mensinger

Community Expert

...a simple renaming of a feature...

If that's all it is to you, then sure, accept it and move along. But perhaps some of us consider the underlying principles in play and see the threat to language in general. How far will it go? It matters. Making too little of it is no better than making too much of it.

Randy Hagan

Community Expert

I don't think it's necessarily bad to assess how you present things, and adjust them so you don't needlessly offend someone. If we look back on how things were commonly referred to 40-50 years ago and how, in retrospect, that's patently offensive in the current lexicon, there's no shame in adjusting definitions to be more considerate today.

When I read the original post, a couple of vivid examples immediately came to mind. But decorum rightly stops me from using those same examples today. And in the total scheme of things, I can extend the courtesy to make things better because it's not that big a deal. Really.

It's not going to kill someone to use the parent/child analogy over the "master" page and whatever that may imply ... though it will take a little effort to entirely edit them out of my workbooks. C'est la vie.

Randy

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Eugene Tyson

Community Expert

A better term to describe the relationship is parent and child that Adobe thought to be more appropriate. That and primary text frames.

Changing terminology happens all the time for a better understanding to wider audiences that increases clarity.

John Mensinger

Community Expert

It won't have a profound effect on me either way, but I do worry sometimes that context is being stripped of its significance, and that's not a good thing.

"Master" has more than one meaning, and to say that any and every utterance of it "has no place in today's society" in efforts to snuff it out entirely is literally doing away with the importance of context. This is happening to many words now. It's ironic how "inclusion" is shrinking our language; trading one form of intolerance for another.

Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com

Legend

I think this idea sprang from one person on a small committee that works on internet standards. Now it's taking root everywhere, all in the idea of "correcting" our language.

"Master" makes me wonder what to do with terms like: Master craftsman, master electrician, master plumber, master printer, master chef — all of which indicate that someone has mastered a craft to earn the title. Are their apprentices now called slaves?

What about master plans that every municality has to direct growth and development? Do we have slave urban plans?

And master recoordings?

The list of different uses of the word is endless, but none of them have anything to do with a horrific practice by some humans.

All uses of the word are now banned because of one narrow definition of the world.

And it doesn't help improve the lives of anyone.

Sure wish Adobe has reallocated that money to fix something worthwhile in the program.

|    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |

Dave Creamer of IDEAS

Community Expert

I agree that there are proper usages. I think it depends on the usage and context. (Years ago, I was an Adobe Creative Suite Master and an Adobe Design Master for CS & CC!)

If it implies a person/object that controls other persons/objects, then it could be referred to as a "master/slave" relationship. As far as craftsman, they may have apprentices--and many of us may be subservient to a boss--but that is a choice one makes and has control over.

As you know, way the master (parent) pages work is that the master dictates what the document pages do (not counting overrides).

I suspect this was a topic of long discussions at Adobe (and probably just as heated...).

David Creamer: Community Expert (ACI and ACE 1995-2023)

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Eugene Tyson

Community Expert

It's just terminology.

They used to be called 'Master' and 'Slave'

Even hard drives have ditched the 'slave drive' terminology.

And rightly so.

Antiquated ideologies and terminology are replaced with more modern terminolgoy all the time.

Parent and Child is where it's at now.

Who knows where it will be at in 100 years time.

But for now - the 'master' 'slave' thing can be washed away as it has no place in society.

Randy Hagan

Community Expert

I don't believe they were ever called 'Slave' pages. Methinks you project a bit much there if you're going to paint InDesign with that broad brush ...

Certainly there were 'Master' pages.

Just sayin'.

Randy

Dave Creamer of IDEAS

Community Expert

As I mentioned in another post, I've always referred to them as having a parent/child relationship. Perhaps it from years of using structured (XML) FrameMaker. (That makes me wonder if FrameMaker will change its terminology on the next update.)

When I reviewed the changes/new features in the new ID version, I noted the name change, filed in away in my brain, and moved on.

David Creamer: Community Expert (ACI and ACE 1995-2023)

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