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Grundoon Groundhog
Inspiring
November 5, 2023
Question

Formats lost when moving from documents to document

  • November 5, 2023
  • 2 replies
  • 931 views

I have spent several days formatting an article that requires Times Roman Arabic characters mixed with a different running text font. To avoid losing this formatting when flowing in other articles and replacing their fonts, I saved as to a second document, using all of the parent paragraph and character styles. After several days of work, I cheerfully tried to copy and paste the elements of the second document into the "parent' document. All formatting was lost. It reverted to the original text font as flowed from Word (Times Roman, in fact, but NOT the running text font). Wrong font, wrong size, wrong paragraph formatting. 

Then I tried copying and flowing the formatted text into the parent document. Same result.

There are no styles in the empty text boxes.

There are no character styles in the empty text boxes.

Any advice would be appreciated. I am attaching the two documents. The parent is "KL 111H" and the second is "KL 111 Arabic Formatted FontsF.

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    2 replies

    I
    Ida33394140hqh5
    Participant
    November 5, 2023

    This happens because Word can "absorb" explicit formatting changes into the underlying style. When this occurs, any other document elements that used that style automatically change to reflect the newly applied format.

    G
    Grundoon GroundhogAuthor
    Inspiring
    November 5, 2023

    I'm sorry, I don't understand this at all. The Word styles have been replaced by InDesign Styles. The applied format disappeared in InDesign. What do you mean by "the underlying style?"

    Peter Spier
    Community Expert
    Peter SpierCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    November 5, 2023

    you are correct - it has nothing to do with the Word styles.

    As Scott mentioned, basing any style on [Basic Paragraph] leaves you open to surprises if someone has edited that style in either the sending or receiving document. That said, you would have the same problem basing styles on another named style if that style also exists in the receiving document with a different definition as it is the styles in the receiving file that control the formatting for that document. The difference is that [Basic Paragraph] exists in ALL documents created since version 4 (I think, could even be earlier) so the potential for trouble is much greater.

      Scott Falkner
      Community Expert
      Scott FalknerCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      November 5, 2023

      I would not be surprised if this was our old enemy, Basic Paragraph. The Basic Paragraph style was a terrible idea added several version ago. It is a paragraph style you cannot delete and should never use, never edit, and never base any styles on.

       

      To understand this trap it helpos to understand how paragraph styles work, espcially between documents when using styles with the same name. Let us say in both Document A and Document B you have a stlye called Body Copy. In Document A Body Copy is 12 point TImes Roman. In Document B Body Copy is 11 point Helvetica. If you copy a paragraph styles as Body Copy from Document A to Document B you will select some 12 point Times Roman text, but when you paste it it will become 11 point Helvetica. The pasted text adopts the formatting of matching styles in the target document.

       

      This is usally acceptable and is not likely a surprise. The problem is that every document has a style called Basic Paragraph. For most installations of InDesign this is the default format for any new text. That is, create a new document, add a text frame, and start typing. The text you type will be formatted as Basic Paragraph. Create a new paragraph style and it will be based on Basic Paragraph. Some people will see this style is in their new odcuments and will use it as the default style, editing the style. If that text is copied to a different document it will almost certainly be reformatted to match Basic Parahraph in the target document. This will happen even if you are not directly using Basic Paragraph. Say in Document A Body Copy is based on Basic Paragraph, but in Document B Body Copy is not based on any style. Even if the formatting for both Body Copies is the same pasing Body Copy from one document to another can cause reformatting because the Basic Paragraph styles in each document do not match.

       

      In short: Do not ever use Basic Paragraph, do not ever edit it, and do not ever base other styles on Basic Paragraph. Also, vote for this… https://indesign.uservoice.com/forums/601021-adobe-indesign-feature-requests/suggestions/43146405-eliminate-basic-paragraph-style

        G
        Grundoon GroundhogAuthor
        Inspiring
        November 5, 2023

        So I should change all my styles so they aren't based on Basic Paragraph? 

        It should be the same Basic Paragraph in both documents in my case.

        Willi Adelberger
        Community Expert
        Willi AdelbergerCommunity Expert
        Community Expert
        November 5, 2023

        You should not use Basic Paragraph Style in brackets. If it is correct done, all other styles a based one root style and only this one should be changed. Correct it in the first document, then import all text formats into the other documents in the paragraph style panel menu. 

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