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Fully embedding fonts in PDF

Forum|Forum|11 years ago
December 5, 2014
5 replies
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Hi,

I had a piece of information but I can't seem to find it anymore so I have to ask ...

This is about understanding limitations of fully embedding fonts in a PDF (from Indesign Server). Actually it's about one limitation in particular. I know fonts with licensing issues or fonts that are marked "embedded not allowed" will not be embedded. Also, there is a threshold that I need to set.

So, I recall reading somewhere that Indesign will not fully embed "standard" fonts. Is that correct and what is this standard fonts category?

Oh, reading through some posts, I noticed lots of people and experts ask why does one need fully embedded fonts. That's a good question and I don't know the root reason but in my case it seems that some regulatory agencies (in the life sciences/pharma domain) require PDFs with fully embedded fonts.

Many thanks

Cristian

This topic has been closed for replies.

Correct answer Dov Isaacs

On behalf of Adobe:

(1) For both InDesign “PDF export” (including InDesign Server) and Illustrator “save as PDF” functions, most but not all of the .joboptions file font embedding options are totally and utterly ignored. The options that are ignored are the Embed all fonts, Embed OpenType fonts, Always embed, and Never embed. Those options are observed by Distiller and the PDFMaker components of Acrobat.

(2) These applications will attempt to embed all fonts referenced by the document, regardless of the settings of the .joboptions file. The only reason why a font would not be embedded in a PDF file would be if (a) the font was unavailable (i.e., not installed on the system) or (b) the font's embedding permissions do not permit embedding for at least preview and print privileges. Thus, if you use the so-called Standard .joboptions (strongly not recommended for any graphic arts purposes), even the base 14 fonts (four faces each of Helvetica, Times, and Courier along with Symbol and ITC Zapf Dingbats will be embedded if your document references them.

(3) The subset threshold value of 0 (zero) may effectively cause all the glyphs of a font to be embedded in some, but not all cases. This will work for many if not most Type 1 fonts and some smaller TrueType and OpenType CFF fonts. Note that embedding all glyphs in a font is not the same as embedding a full font. For OpenType and TrueType fonts, InDesign and Illustrator never embed all the tables of the font. Such unembedded tables include those used for pair kerning, advanced OpenType features (such as ligatures, alternate representations, contextual alternates, small caps, old style figures, etc.), and extended metrics.

(4) There are plenty of bubbameissas out there with regards to the benefits or liabilities of either fully embedding or subset embedding fonts. What is true is that: (a) Acrobat never uses the embedded font for text editing - you must have the font installed on the system in order to do such edits. (b) Subset embedding or not is totally irrelevant to what a RIP does when rendering text, either for PostScript or direct PDF RIPs. Neither subset or full embedding is any more reliable than the other and the specifications of PostScript and PDF do not permit the RIP to replace the embedded font with a font with a similar name - urban legend notwithstanding!!!! (c) Third party plug-ins to Acrobat or applications that claim to allow you to edit PDF files with embedded fonts may be illegally letting you do so if the embedding permissions do not permit embedding for editable embedding or installable embedding - most fonts do not provide such embedding permissions and since the fonts are missing metric information, such editing may be somewhat lacking in quality or features.

(5) In fact some very non-tech-savvy organizations have posted requirements for full embedding of fonts in submitted PDF files (I have personally seen one such requirement by some international bureaucracy). They can post such bone-headed requirements based on limited understanding of PDF and PDF workflows, but that doesn't mean that anybody actually provides such PDF files. If in fact you run into such requirements, I would appreciate it if references to same can be forwarded to my attention by private message on these forums.

- Dov

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Did you try using Verify in preflight to check the file?

T

Test Screen Name

Legend

It's worth using the preflight in Acrobat Pro to validate the file you sent them As PDF/X-1a Does it pass, or give the same error?

ORGramps

Participant

Please forgive the typo in my original post. The file format I used and got the error message was a PDFX-1a (SWOP).

I have since tried it with PDFX-1a and get the same error message. I have also used the Acrobat Pro Preflight Fixups 1. Embed Fonts and 2. Embed Fonts (even if text is invisible). I get the same error message: "FONTS CONTAIN MISSING GLYPHS OR ARE NOT FULLY EMBEDDED IN THE PDF*: We require that all fonts be embedded, with no missing glyphs. Please submit a new file with all fonts properly embedded. Saving a file using the default PDF/X-1a:2001 setting will eliminate this issue. You may refer to the File Creation Guide for further instructions on creating a compliant PDF." With the following additional statement "We are unable to process files with this issue. Please correct this issue and upload new files."

Do I need to go to InDesign or the latest version of Acrobat Pro?

rob day

Community Expert

Set Advanced>Subset fonts when percent of characters used is less than to 0%

There's nothing in the PDF/X standard that requires the entire font to be embedded

Peter Spier

Community Expert

One thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is the subtle difference between "embed all fonts" and "fully embed fonts." It's important for output that every font used in the file be embedded with a subset to cover the used glyphs or be installed previously in the exact same version on the output device. I suspect many places that write a spec for fully embedded fonts don't understand the difference and really mean embed all fonts.

Dov IsaacsCorrect answer

Legend

On behalf of Adobe:

(1) For both InDesign “PDF export” (including InDesign Server) and Illustrator “save as PDF” functions, most but not all of the .joboptions file font embedding options are totally and utterly ignored. The options that are ignored are the Embed all fonts, Embed OpenType fonts, Always embed, and Never embed. Those options are observed by Distiller and the PDFMaker components of Acrobat.

(2) These applications will attempt to embed all fonts referenced by the document, regardless of the settings of the .joboptions file. The only reason why a font would not be embedded in a PDF file would be if (a) the font was unavailable (i.e., not installed on the system) or (b) the font's embedding permissions do not permit embedding for at least preview and print privileges. Thus, if you use the so-called Standard .joboptions (strongly not recommended for any graphic arts purposes), even the base 14 fonts (four faces each of Helvetica, Times, and Courier along with Symbol and ITC Zapf Dingbats will be embedded if your document references them.

(3) The subset threshold value of 0 (zero) may effectively cause all the glyphs of a font to be embedded in some, but not all cases. This will work for many if not most Type 1 fonts and some smaller TrueType and OpenType CFF fonts. Note that embedding all glyphs in a font is not the same as embedding a full font. For OpenType and TrueType fonts, InDesign and Illustrator never embed all the tables of the font. Such unembedded tables include those used for pair kerning, advanced OpenType features (such as ligatures, alternate representations, contextual alternates, small caps, old style figures, etc.), and extended metrics.

(4) There are plenty of bubbameissas out there with regards to the benefits or liabilities of either fully embedding or subset embedding fonts. What is true is that: (a) Acrobat never uses the embedded font for text editing - you must have the font installed on the system in order to do such edits. (b) Subset embedding or not is totally irrelevant to what a RIP does when rendering text, either for PostScript or direct PDF RIPs. Neither subset or full embedding is any more reliable than the other and the specifications of PostScript and PDF do not permit the RIP to replace the embedded font with a font with a similar name - urban legend notwithstanding!!!! (c) Third party plug-ins to Acrobat or applications that claim to allow you to edit PDF files with embedded fonts may be illegally letting you do so if the embedding permissions do not permit embedding for editable embedding or installable embedding - most fonts do not provide such embedding permissions and since the fonts are missing metric information, such editing may be somewhat lacking in quality or features.

(5) In fact some very non-tech-savvy organizations have posted requirements for full embedding of fonts in submitted PDF files (I have personally seen one such requirement by some international bureaucracy). They can post such bone-headed requirements based on limited understanding of PDF and PDF workflows, but that doesn't mean that anybody actually provides such PDF files. If in fact you run into such requirements, I would appreciate it if references to same can be forwarded to my attention by private message on these forums.

- Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

Derek Cross

Community Expert

Dov - can you define "bubbameissas" please!

Dov Isaacs

Legend

DerekC1000 wrote:

Dov - can you define "bubbameissas" please!

Yiddish for “grandmother's tales” somewhat akin to unsubstantiated urban legends perpetuated over the years. Somewhat difficult to really translate.

- Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

Daniel Flavin

Inspiring

You may be mixing some memories.

The Standard PDF .joboptions setting does not embed common fonts.

InDesign's Export ignores these this attribute. (Other means of pdf creation will honor the "not embed")

I recall reading somewhere that you can force a full Embed without subset if you set the threshold to 0. InDesign will allow 0 in the subset minimum, Distiller requires 1-100 as input.

Distiller shown

You

curelaAuthor

Participating Frequently

Thanks Daniel!

If you're suggesting I mixed "standard fonts" with "standard options", the answer is 'no'. I am not saying my memories don't have bad sectors, just not that one. I am pretty sure I recall reading about "standard fonts". I actually never saw the options above. But maybe you did answer my question ...

And to clarify I am talking about Indesign Server and associated Javascript APIs. I posted the question on this forum assuming the functionality would be generic. And yes, I do use the threshold at 0 if I want full embedding

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There are 14 fonts with a special status: Helvetica (regular, oblique, bold, bold oblique), Courier (ditto), Times (roman, italic, bold, bold italic), Symbol and Zapf Dingbats. (These privileges do not extend as some believe to similarly named fonts). These fonts never need to be embedded because they can always be shown. But they can be embedded, assuming you own them.

There is a separate problem with embedding entire fonts: most fonts now CANNOT be fully embedded. I think this is true of all OpenType fonts but cannot confirm it. Some agencies indeed have unhelpful requirements which cannot necessarily be satisfied.

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