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Question

GREP Not Working with Arial in Monterey

Forum|Forum|3 years ago
July 27, 2022
5 replies
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We are utilizing a PIM system that allows us to export and XML file and we flow it using an Autoflow setting with InDesign. Our fractions are written out like regular numbers - 1/2 - since we have so much data. I have a new Mac using the M1 processor, we are using Monterey 12.4. I am trying to use GREP to convert the numbers into actual fractions. Our font is Arial - the system supplied font. The information on it says that it is an OpenType TrueType font. I can't get the GREP styles for fractions to work with the font and don't know why. The style works with the system default font Minion Pro. However, our company font our of documents is Arial. Can anyone help me with this issue? Thank you in advance for your help. Sincerely.

Type

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Frank Grießhammer

Adobe Employee

The problem described here has little to do with GREP, Monterey, or even InDesign. The issue at hand is that the system-provided version of Arial does not support the OpenType fractions feature. This also explains why Minion does work in the same scenario.

The Arial provided with my macOS 12.4 (font version 5.01.2x, built 2006, found at /System/Library/Fonts/Supplemental) does not have any typographic GSUB (glyph substitution) features, so no fractions, no superiors, no alternate figures, etc.

A newer build of Arial might support OpenType fractions, but testing in this preview does not look promising: https://www.myfonts.com/products/std-regular-arial-344712

If you were to substitute Arial with a similar font, I’d recommend Acumin.

Here is some more background info about the OpenType fractions feature: https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/open-type-fractions/m-p/11075630#M183631

Peter Spier

Community Expert

I followed your link to the Arial OTF version on MyFonts and it says it supports fractions, but I'm sure I know less about fonts than you do. They seemed to work in the online preview, but again, I'm on Windows and who's to say if th ebrowser works differently from the applications and if the OS matters at this point.

I did look at the glyphs and most of the fraction glyphs seem to be at really odd positions -- various accented characters for eastern european languages I'd guess.

All that aside, it's good to have confirmation it's a font issue.

Frank Grießhammer

Adobe Employee

You’re right in the observation that the Arial on MyFonts does support fractions, however, arbitrary fractions (which you are after) are not supported. See this screenshot:

The fractions shown (⅓ ⅞ ¾) are available as pre-composed Unicode characters, the fraction feature in that Arial does “as little as possible” in order to claim fraction support. Please see the link to @Jongware ’s response on a similar topic: https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/open-type-fractions/m-p/11075630#M183631

L

Laubender

Community Expert

@shawnw68401942 said: "When I open your file the fractions are showing up as the numbers are just typed out - like this - 1/2. not in a stacked look as they should."

Hi Shawn,

that's real crazy. Perhaps its important to state, that with my Windows machine there is no font management software installed.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender
( Adobe Community Professional )

L

Laubender

Community Expert

@shawnw68401942 said:

"So, I am on a Mac using InDesign 17.2.1, however several other Mac designers in my team are using InDesign 17.3. The GREP style for Arial isn't working for them either. (One of the testers on the team doesn't have the plugin) We have also tried several other fonts with no success. "

To test that I would do the following:

[1] Disable the plug-in

[2] Open the document and export it to IDML to get rid of the plug-in entry

[3] Open the IDML file as document, save it to a new name

[4] Restart the machine and now do your tests with the document you saved from the opened IDML file.

And yes, it would be appreciated if someone who is reading this here and is on MacOS can test this as well.

Also with my two test documents I provided via Dropbox. Here again the download links:

InDesign 2021:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jb0vglv3sxchaho/InDesign%20Test%20Document-GREPStyleApplied-to-shin-2021.indd?dl=1

InDesign 2022 17.3.0:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfprflnou4n7d2b/InDesign%20Test%20Document-GREPStyleApplied-to-shin.indd?dl=1

The IDML file exported from InDesign 2022 17.3.0:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yxu0mwibvx3z4by/InDesign%20Test%20Document-GREPStyleApplied-to-shin.idml?dl=1

Regards,
Uwe Laubender
( Adobe Community Professional )

shawnw68401942Author

Known Participant

Thank you. We will try this.

shawnw68401942Author

Known Participant

We have a person on our team that doesn't have the plugin installed so he did the testing. He is on InDesign 2022 17.3. He set up a new document with factions written out as number: 1/2 , etc.... Saved as a IDML, closed the file, reopened the file, applied new GREP styles using Arial and the fractions didn't convert to regular fractions. The fraction was still written out. So..we have InDesign 2022 17.3 and InDesign 2022 17.2.1 that this has been tested on. InDesign 2022 17.3 computer doesn't have the plugin and the fractions didn't convert. They did when we selected Minion Pro, but any other font no.

I appreciate all the help I am getting, so frustrating because I have a 300 page price list to update and can't until I get the fractions worked out.

Have a blessed day.

L

Laubender

Community Expert

Hi @shawnw68401942 ,

could you provide a sample InDesign document?

Just one page.

You said: "All of our price lists are using a PIM for data organization and we flow all the informaiton via xml files into InDesign using an Autoflow script"

Perhaps the XML tags in the text play a role here?

Thanks,
Uwe Laubender
( Adobe Community Professional )

shawnw68401942Author

Known Participant

We currently are using a PIM software called MarketStudio by Questudio and have been using their software for around 4 years now. Prior to getting our new Macs about a month ago and loading InDesign 17.2.1 software we had no issues. We were using InDesign 2019 prior and our scripts worked fine. Questudio has double checked their software and doesn't anything on their end that would cause the issue. Attached is a one page document from our Avant individual price list. This was just flowed into InDesign using the Autoflow settings. We have a script that will even out the column widths so everything is consistent. During that process the fractions are also adjusted. But it is not working now. So we looked at the GREP style and would like to add that to our paragraph styles so when the data flows the style will be applied.

InDesign_Test_Document.zip

L

Laubender

Community Expert

Hi @shawnw68401942 ,

thanks for the document! What is the paragraph style where you applied the GREP Style?

Ok. Maybe the GREP Style is not included in your test document…

Did my own GREP Style and character style for fractions and all is working as expected on my German InDesign 2022 version 17.3 on Windows 10:

Used your GREP pattern for that style. Just one for 1/2 to test the case:

Defined only two properties in the character style named "Fraction".

A new fill color to see where the GREP pattern is active:

And the activated fractions ( German: "Brüche" ) :

Note: When I open your document I have a missing font warning, a Type-1 font warning ( that's the missing font style ) and a plug-in warning for the missing INSTUDIO.PLN:

Download the edited InDesign document from my Dropbox account:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfprflnou4n7d2b/InDesign%20Test%20Document-GREPStyleApplied-to-shin.indd?dl=1

As far as I can see, all is working normal.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender
( Adobe Community Professional )

Peter Spier

Community Expert

Wha ti s the GREP expression thaat you are using? Can you show us a sample string where it fails in Arial, but works with Minion Pro?

shawnw68401942Author

Known Participant

Here is a pdf of the InDesign page. Showing text in three fonts. Times, Arial and Minion Pro. Is this what you need? Thank you for your help. I am also attaching a screen shot of the Arial system font. The information on it says that it is an OpenType TrueType font. From what I read the GREP style only works with OpenType fonts. But since Arial system font is OpenType TrueType shouldn't it work?

GREP_Test_07_27_22.pdf

Peter Spier

Community Expert

It should work, if the expression is written correctly. Please show us the style definition for the style Fraction.

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