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michaelw91583982
Known Participant
April 5, 2020
Answered

Indesign & novel for a photographer.

  • April 5, 2020
  • 4 replies
  • 2113 views

I’m a music photographer who after building a horribly large archive, wrote a couple of rock n roll orientated novels, to promote said archive. Novels were written in Word, and laid out in Scrivener.

I now need to get formatting spot on, and a Freelancer formatting hot shot tells me the novel should get laid out in InDesign.

My question: is it relatively easy to get a remote design guy to lay out the novels in InDesign, then use InDesign my end, so I can keep making minor changed – modification to the text?

I would only be amending typos, and making minor grammatical changes as well as the odd clever modification, however, nothing major.

Meaning, I spose, can I cut and paste chapters from  InDesign to Word, then back to InDesign easy enough, or is that a challenge. I’m not trying to use InDesign as an editor, just ascertain how easy it is to make minor changes.
THANKS

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer Randy Hagan

I guess the questions are: Do you want to invest in a subscription to In Design/Creative Cloud for this process? And is it worth it to you to take on the resposibility/liability of doing your own revisions and submitting those spot on layouts yourself?

 

InDesign is probably the best tool available for creating "press-ready" book production materials. I'm biased, of course, since I use the program for regularly doing that work. As I suspect your freelancing formatting hot shot does and most folks do in the production graphics industry. It's not necessarily the end product for those materials — InDesign is used to create them, but most workflows export InDesign layouts to Acrobat PDF files for printing — but I'd strongly suggest that there's no better software tool for getting your layouts spot on.

 

Similarly, for review and revision of your layouts before submitting the final layouts for printing, it may or may not be the best solution for you.

 

If you trust your layout freelancer, or want to trust but verify his work, using Acrobat PDFs has real advantages.

 

  • First and foremost, is that any changes are made on a level above the critical page layouts, using PDF commenting tools.Which protects your layouts from being inadvertently damaged by problematic edits/changes.
  • Second, and nearly as important, is that you can create, track and confirm those requested changes both on your side and your freelancer's side. This makes it easy on the administrative side to specify exactly what changes need to be made, run a separate "punch list" broken down by page and individual comment that makes it easy to track down those change requests one by one and have your freelancer make them, and, when you get the revised version, easily confirm the changes have been made correctly and/or have a documented record to discuss on the occasion when your changes didn't go the way you expected.
  • Third, and significantly, with Reader-enabled PDFs you don't have to invest in buying InDesign on your end of the process. All you have to do is download the free Adobe Reader utility and you can use that program, or most all web browsers, to take advantage of the first two advantages.

 

If you want to take on control — and the responsibility/liability — of making those changes to your layouts yourself, using InDesign to make changes yourself will do that.

 

  • You have very good text editing tools. It's much easier to edit text in layouts with InDesign — especially when using InDesign's Edit with Story Editor functions. The tools to spell-check, find/change and format text with Story Editor are far superior to what you get in Acrobat, and rival (as well as somewhat mirror) the functionality for doing that work in MSWord and/or Scrivener.
  • You have tools to find/track changes within InDesign, though I'd contend that they're not as robust as the tools available in Adobe Acrobat/Reader. That's my personal impression. I wouldn't be surprised to find others may contend differently.
  • One downside is that if everybody's working in their edits/changes on InDesign documents, version control becomes a real issue. Scrupulous workflow processing and meticulous file management can mitigate the issue, but passing PDF files for review and revisions completely sidestep those issues with a minimum of effort.
  • Another downside is that even minor changes to your copy can conceivably affect your layouts. Maybe even significantly. And I mean no disrespect by offering that most every time an author says there are only a few "minor changes" the end result turns out to be more significant to page layout than anyone intends. Especially as the cycles of review/revisions grows.

 

If you do choose to use InDesign yourself, I strongly recommend that you take Eugene Tyson's last statement to heart and keep your book designer in the loop to ensure your formatting is spot on when you present your final press-ready materials to your printer. And if you plan to be doing this kind of work on a regular basis, it may be worth considering the additional tools (InCopy/WordsFlow) mentioned by the folks at IDEAS_Training. But if you're only doing this a couple of times, or only once or twice a year, I'd strongly recommend for file control and layout integrity reasons that you use a PDF-based review/revisions process.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Randy

4 replies

Randy Hagan
Community Expert
Randy HaganCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
Community Expert
April 5, 2020

I guess the questions are: Do you want to invest in a subscription to In Design/Creative Cloud for this process? And is it worth it to you to take on the resposibility/liability of doing your own revisions and submitting those spot on layouts yourself?

 

InDesign is probably the best tool available for creating "press-ready" book production materials. I'm biased, of course, since I use the program for regularly doing that work. As I suspect your freelancing formatting hot shot does and most folks do in the production graphics industry. It's not necessarily the end product for those materials — InDesign is used to create them, but most workflows export InDesign layouts to Acrobat PDF files for printing — but I'd strongly suggest that there's no better software tool for getting your layouts spot on.

 

Similarly, for review and revision of your layouts before submitting the final layouts for printing, it may or may not be the best solution for you.

 

If you trust your layout freelancer, or want to trust but verify his work, using Acrobat PDFs has real advantages.

 

  • First and foremost, is that any changes are made on a level above the critical page layouts, using PDF commenting tools.Which protects your layouts from being inadvertently damaged by problematic edits/changes.
  • Second, and nearly as important, is that you can create, track and confirm those requested changes both on your side and your freelancer's side. This makes it easy on the administrative side to specify exactly what changes need to be made, run a separate "punch list" broken down by page and individual comment that makes it easy to track down those change requests one by one and have your freelancer make them, and, when you get the revised version, easily confirm the changes have been made correctly and/or have a documented record to discuss on the occasion when your changes didn't go the way you expected.
  • Third, and significantly, with Reader-enabled PDFs you don't have to invest in buying InDesign on your end of the process. All you have to do is download the free Adobe Reader utility and you can use that program, or most all web browsers, to take advantage of the first two advantages.

 

If you want to take on control — and the responsibility/liability — of making those changes to your layouts yourself, using InDesign to make changes yourself will do that.

 

  • You have very good text editing tools. It's much easier to edit text in layouts with InDesign — especially when using InDesign's Edit with Story Editor functions. The tools to spell-check, find/change and format text with Story Editor are far superior to what you get in Acrobat, and rival (as well as somewhat mirror) the functionality for doing that work in MSWord and/or Scrivener.
  • You have tools to find/track changes within InDesign, though I'd contend that they're not as robust as the tools available in Adobe Acrobat/Reader. That's my personal impression. I wouldn't be surprised to find others may contend differently.
  • One downside is that if everybody's working in their edits/changes on InDesign documents, version control becomes a real issue. Scrupulous workflow processing and meticulous file management can mitigate the issue, but passing PDF files for review and revisions completely sidestep those issues with a minimum of effort.
  • Another downside is that even minor changes to your copy can conceivably affect your layouts. Maybe even significantly. And I mean no disrespect by offering that most every time an author says there are only a few "minor changes" the end result turns out to be more significant to page layout than anyone intends. Especially as the cycles of review/revisions grows.

 

If you do choose to use InDesign yourself, I strongly recommend that you take Eugene Tyson's last statement to heart and keep your book designer in the loop to ensure your formatting is spot on when you present your final press-ready materials to your printer. And if you plan to be doing this kind of work on a regular basis, it may be worth considering the additional tools (InCopy/WordsFlow) mentioned by the folks at IDEAS_Training. But if you're only doing this a couple of times, or only once or twice a year, I'd strongly recommend for file control and layout integrity reasons that you use a PDF-based review/revisions process.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Randy

    M
    michaelw91583982Author
    Known Participant
    April 10, 2020

    Heya Randy,

    Thanks for this excellent reply.

    Eugene covered it, however you’ve given me plenty more intel. I also had no idea InCopy existed, as per IDEAS-Training answer. This looks like the fix, for this text only novel.

    The novel is only needing to be edited to test reader level: any advancement into production will be taken over by a publisher, so my key focus is getting a professional epub product.

    First point of frustration, Adobe have not replied to my query as to what it will actually cost to add InDesign to my CC package. On a month to month basis for a few months it will not break the bank, however they have not responded.

     

    When a novel gets to 300 00 words (disaster) you are correct,

    One downside is that if everybody's working in their edits/changes on InDesign documents, version control becomes a real issue.

    So I would only want me to be tweaking the words. It sounds like Incopy will be the solution here.

    In these grim pandemic times, with the planet in lockdowm, this is the time to get this project done. I’ve just rebuilt my site, using a remarkably ugly platform called Piwago, however it does allow the relatively easy display of vast amount of filed live music images.

    https://projectphotography.com/

    Now I just have to get the words right so somebody cares.

    M
    michaelw91583982Author
    Known Participant
    April 10, 2020

    Thanks again Randy, hope all’s well in your world in these strange times.

    Dave Creamer of IDEAS
    Community Expert
    Dave Creamer of IDEASCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    April 5, 2020

    You could:

    1. Subscribe to (only) InCopy for about $5 US/month and edit the InDesign text directly. Don't subscribe until you are ready to edit. There is a realitively minor cost but the biggest thing would be you learning to edit and format correctly in InCopy.
    2. The freelancer could get EmSoftware's WordsFlow plugin for Indesign; you could continue to do your edits in Word. Downside is the cost but the freelancer can use the plugin with all their clients, so the cost could be spread out.
    3. My last choice would be the PDF commenting workflow; it works for simple edits but you may not find it as satisfying for larger edits. Best option for cost--none for you.

     

    The freelancer and you could set up a shared folder using the Creative Cloud folder or Dropbox. 

    David Creamer: Community Expert (ACI and ACE 1995-2023)
      M
      michaelw91583982Author
      Known Participant
      April 10, 2020

      Thanks mate. I’ve had a glance at In copy, am I correct in surmising $5 a month gets me the ability to edit text, in collaboration with a designer.

       

      InCopy is a word-based process where editors can edit, design as well as write the document whereas in Indesign designers can only visualize the design. ... Though InCopy can be used separately but if it gets integrated with InDesign then the editors and designers can work together simultaneously.

       

      If this is the case, I hope someone from Adobe gets in touch to amend my account, so I can get this set up. No answer from them thus far.

       

      Thanks bud.

      Dave Creamer of IDEAS
      Community Expert
      Dave Creamer of IDEASCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      April 10, 2020

      The workflow between InDesign and InCopy is not hard per se, but it can be confusing initially. You will need a shared "drive" like OneDrive or similar service. The editing features in IC are virtually identical to ID. LinkedIn Learning (aka Lynda.com) has some tutorials on YouTube at:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSA2ks_iLOo

       

      If you already have the Creative Cloud subscription, you have ID and IC as Randy mentioned. (Technically, if you have CC, you could do the editing in ID directly.) If you don't have CC, you can subscribe to just IC to save money. 

      David Creamer: Community Expert (ACI and ACE 1995-2023)
      N
      Community Expert
      nigelfrenchCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      April 5, 2020

      Hi Michael, 

      There are several possible workflows you could use, but if your edits are light, I think the most straightforward way would be for your designer to send you PDFs exported from InDesign. You can mark these up using Adobe Reader or Acrobat. Return the marked up PDFs to your designer, who can integrate your comments into the InDesign document using the PDF Comments panel.

        E
        Community Expert
        Eugene TysonCommunity Expert
        Community Expert
        April 5, 2020

        Once it's in InDesign I'd leave it in InDesign. No need to go back and forward to Word.

        Yes, you can easily make text changes once it's laid out and designed. 

        I'd keep the designer on hand to finalise the book though - once you've finished your edits.

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