Inspiring

Answered

No-break space size varies

Forum|Forum|8 years ago
July 20, 2017
5 replies
3233 views

I have 2 computers, both CS6 (version 8.1.0.420), both Windows 7. Both have been editing the same InDesign files for a long time, we've not noticed any differences.

However, in one particular font one computer is "reading" the no-break space considerably larger than the other computer.

I know between CS3 and CS6 it seemed that InDesign began using the no-break character (U00A0) directly from the font. That it, if the 00A0 glyph was in the font is started using the width of that glyph. Prior to CS6 it didn't seem to do that.

However, both these computers are running the same version of CS6 but acting differently regarding the no-break space.

Any ideas why?!

Thank you,
Ken

This topic has been closed for replies.

Correct answer KenWK

Thanks for all the input guys, MUCH appreciated! It turns out that it's even MORE complicated than any of the above, and involves both an OpenType and Type1 versions of the same font. :/

So, Windows has 2 registry areas that hold font info for PostScript fonts (OTF and Type1), more specifically, entries that "point" to font filenames. Various font management software only update the "Wow6432Node" registry entry, which seems to be a "legacy" entry that the Adobe apps (InDesign and Photoshop at least) do not "see," they only look at the newest registry entries. Which pretty much makes sense.

As a point of note: If the InDesign file being opened already has a Type1 font that is only in the legacy registry entry (the one InD doesn't "see") it will still use the font correctly. I THINK because the path of the font file is actually stored in the InD file (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

At some point, on the computer that was displaying the no-break space the same size as the regular space, the Type1 font had been loaded into the registry key that InD can "see." When the OTF font was loaded on that computer InD was getting to confused because it had the OTF and some font cache stuff from the Type1 font. It was using the Type1 font metrics, apparently.

Which brings me to another point: InD does something different with the no-break space in OTF fonts than it does Type1 fonts. We discovered this by UNloading the OTF and putting the Type1 font files in the "C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe InDesign CS6\Fonts" folder. When using an OTF font and setting a no-break space, InD appears to use the width of the no-break space glyph (00A0), but when using the Type1 font it uses the width of the regular space for no-break spaces.

By unloading the font everywhere and deleting the InD font cache files all machines were setting the no-break space the same size using the OTF font. WHICH was actually the WRONG size, it was larger than a regular space! We ended up changing the width of the 00A0 glyph to match the regular space and regenerating the OTF.

Hope this helps someone, sometime.

All best and thanks again,
Ken

K

KenWKAuthorCorrect answer

Inspiring

Thanks for all the input guys, MUCH appreciated! It turns out that it's even MORE complicated than any of the above, and involves both an OpenType and Type1 versions of the same font. :/

So, Windows has 2 registry areas that hold font info for PostScript fonts (OTF and Type1), more specifically, entries that "point" to font filenames. Various font management software only update the "Wow6432Node" registry entry, which seems to be a "legacy" entry that the Adobe apps (InDesign and Photoshop at least) do not "see," they only look at the newest registry entries. Which pretty much makes sense.

As a point of note: If the InDesign file being opened already has a Type1 font that is only in the legacy registry entry (the one InD doesn't "see") it will still use the font correctly. I THINK because the path of the font file is actually stored in the InD file (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

At some point, on the computer that was displaying the no-break space the same size as the regular space, the Type1 font had been loaded into the registry key that InD can "see." When the OTF font was loaded on that computer InD was getting to confused because it had the OTF and some font cache stuff from the Type1 font. It was using the Type1 font metrics, apparently.

Which brings me to another point: InD does something different with the no-break space in OTF fonts than it does Type1 fonts. We discovered this by UNloading the OTF and putting the Type1 font files in the "C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe InDesign CS6\Fonts" folder. When using an OTF font and setting a no-break space, InD appears to use the width of the no-break space glyph (00A0), but when using the Type1 font it uses the width of the regular space for no-break spaces.

By unloading the font everywhere and deleting the InD font cache files all machines were setting the no-break space the same size using the OTF font. WHICH was actually the WRONG size, it was larger than a regular space! We ended up changing the width of the 00A0 glyph to match the regular space and regenerating the OTF.

Hope this helps someone, sometime.

All best and thanks again,
Ken

Jongware

Community Expert

Ken, that's some great sleuthing you did here!

For clarity: so both fonts contain a valid glyph for the non-breaking space? Intriguing! I'm going to check if I can replicate the different behavior you found between Type-1 and OTF, and see if I can find out more on this. As I understand it, I don't need two 'similar' fonts, just two where the widths of Space and NBSP are different - if I can't find one, I'll create some

Willi Adelberger

Community Expert

Does both documents have the same paragraph styles?

jane-e

Community Expert

Which Nonbreaking Space are you using?

Jeff Witchel, ACI

Community Expert

Just my opinion: I would suggest not using the No Break Space at all. Why? The words on either side of the No Break Space can still hyphenate, which kind of defeats the purpose of that space.

Instead, select the two words on either side of the space and choose No Break under the options menu of the Character panel. This No Break formatting can be saved as a Character Style making it easier to apply again and again.

T

tylerkb

Participant

There are purposes you may not have thought of when you said hyphenation "defeats the purpose" of a nonbreaking space. I use a nonbreaking space when I want to keep two words together near a line ending, even at the cost of hyphenating one of the words. I work on projects that adapt the same content to different formats, where text can re-flow and re-wrap, so line breaks can change. I want to preserve those word pairs (such as the space between a number value and its unit) without adding soft line breaks that could eventually land in the middle of a line.

amaarora

Community Manager

Hi,

Maybe because the fonts are different....

The Nonbreaking Space varies in width depending on point size, the justification setting, and word space settings, whereas the Nonbreaking Space (Fixed Width) character maintains the same width regardless of context.

-Aman

Jongware

Community Expert

A necessary correction:

amaarora wrote
The Nonbreaking Space varies in width depending on point size, the justification setting, and word space settings, whereas the Nonbreaking Space (Fixed Width) character maintains the same width regardless of context.

amaarora

Community Manager

Hi [Jongware],

https://forums.adobe.com/people/%5BJongware%5D wrote
A necessary correction:
amaarora wrote
The Nonbreaking Space varies in width depending on point size, the justification setting, and word space settings, whereas the Nonbreaking Space (Fixed Width) character maintains the same width regardless of context.

According to me, it does change with point size. From the below illustration i have tried to show how the width of the space changes when point size is varied keeping justification constant. And how the space width changes keeping point size constant and varying justification.

Please correct me again if I am missing something.

-Aman

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