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sidneydavenport
sidneydavenport
Inspiring
November 8, 2024
Answered

Numbered lists with subsidiary paragraphs: Reflowable epub 3.x

  • November 8, 2024
  • 1 reply
  • 1443 views

I'm formatting lists in a 200-page reflowable epub. Numbered levels have subsidiary paragraphs that need to indent with no space above. A diagram is attached.

 

The InDesign paragraph styles are correct but, of course, it doesn't export like that. Not only that, but I'm getting random corruptions each time I export the file from InDesign.

 

In xhtml I'm getting spacing between the <li>s and the paragraphs that follow since they aren't part of the <ol>. Before I spend any more time trying to sort out the 14 list tags in CSS, can anyone tell me if this is even possible? Thanks.

 

InDesign 19.5 x64 on Windows 11 Pro

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer James Gifford—NitroPress

For some reason I couldn't see the None category for Numbering Style! 

 

I'm trying to reproduce formatting for a complex book, published in 1973, that will lose meaning if the paragraphs in the ebook are indented differently from the printed version -- so I can't simplify it much.

 

This first version is only being tested in the Kindle app - usually on an iPad. Once I get it to Amazon, I'll make any adjustments needed for publishing to Nook, Kobo, etc.

 

Most consultants think I should have exported to fixed layout but that wasn't my assignment from the publisher.  


I didn't use None. I used Numbered and cleared the Number definition. I don't know if I can justify the choice on any technical basis, but I have a faint recollection of None creating secondary problems. Sorry, I garbled that: there is no list type "None," and selecting this just leaves the style as a regular paragraph, outside the list management rules, which I think might have been part of the OP's problems. If you want an un-numbered list item, clear the Number field.

 

The short rules for lists is —

  • Create a named List for all elements in each numbered list "model" within your document.
  • Don't mix paragraphs (i.e. list type "None") and list elements.
  • Make sure things like "continue numbering" and "reset after" are set correctly for each level — it can take some experimentation to see how they interact, especially in export to EPUB.
  • Don't get too complicated too quickly  — try to stay with one optimized style per level unless you really, really need a variant to achieve some final aspect.
  • Make use of oddball setup options like None and no defined number when you need unnumbered entries.

 

I'll simply withhold comment on "most consultants" and "FXL." Those who can, and all that.

1 reply

James Gifford—NitroPress
James Gifford—NitroPress
Legend
November 8, 2024

Lists in EPUB are both simple — they follow HTML/CSS rules — and maddening because the conversion from InDesign's structure and methods to those lists is not always sensible. There are some significant gaps in the overall flow (such as InDesign applying no fundamental styling to the <ol> and <ul> elements; adding some basic style to those via CSS goes a long way).

 

There is also the perennial reader problem; EPUB viewers vary enormously in how they interpret lists, especially where they apply default, hard-coded style elements like left spacing of each level.

 

Best I can do in a nutshell is recommend this reference essay: http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/DPR/dpr_lists.php.

 

Happy to answer further questions.

    sidneydavenport
    sidneydavenportAuthor
    Inspiring
    November 10, 2024

    Thanks James. I'm sitting here with your book in front of me. It doesn't seem to explain how to make the paragraphs that are part of the list, but don't have numbers (or bullets) stack with zero spacing between the list and the paragraph. Is there any way to  do that? I uploaded a little diagram that shows exactly what I need. 

    James Gifford—NitroPress
    James Gifford—NitroPress
    Legend
    November 10, 2024

    This is, I think, one of the empty areas of the Venn diagram where something is fairly straightforward in InDesign, and fairly straightforward in HTML/CSS, but getting it to export from one to the other, even with significant CSS style work, is not easy.

     

    Multiple levels are a bit challenging in any case, but In yours, trying to combine numbered and un-numbered levels adds to the fun.

     

    First question: have you tried using the text-export method? That should almost exactly mirror an ID layout by bypassing all of the curves and bumps brought in by trying to follow HTML list structure.

     

    Interesting puzzle, though. Let me tinker with it to see if I can match your diagram structure.

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