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Technicians claim my file doesn't have fonts embedded…but they're incorrect, right?

Forum|Forum|8 years ago
January 2, 2018
6 respuestas
5400 visualizaciones

I recently uploaded this file to Amazon :

http://www.ccwatershed.org/pdfs/90876-font-pdf-embedded/download/

But when Amazon converted it, they made it look like this:

http://www.ccwatershed.org/media/photologue/photos/90877-errors-font-embed.png

(LULU had the same issue.)

When I asked why, they said:

Our Technical Department team checked your title ID 7934337 and they were able to confirm that the visual errors the your are seeing in the print interior file are a result of unembedded fonts specifically, PlantinMTStd-Regular and PlantinMTStd-Italic.

Question:

Does this file really not have embedded fonts?

http://www.ccwatershed.org/pdfs/90876-font-pdf-embedded/download/

Also: those are just 2 pages out of 100—most of the other pages were just fine.

As you can see here:

http://www.ccwatershed.org/media/photologue/photos/90875-my-version.png

…the file was created using the most recent & up-to-date version of Adobe Indesign.

The musical files were created with Sibelius 8.4.2 and were exported as PDF before being 'placed' into Adobe Indesign.

Este tema ha sido cerrado para respuestas.

Mejor respuesta de Dov Isaacs

On behalf of Adobe Systems Incorporated …

There is absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with this PDF file in terms of the fonts and how they are embedded. And as Steve pointed out, PlantinMTStd-Italic isn't even referenced by this PDF file!

The only “issue” that I can find is that the text is RGB black, i.e. RGB=(0,0,0) which depending upon the processes used by the print service provider might yield a “rich black” that might cause the text to be printed in a mixture of all four process colors. Skilled professional printers normally know how to set the RIP or DFE (digital front end for digital presses) to automatically convert R=G=B to grayscale, i.e. CMYK=(0,0,0,K). If you wanted to fix this issue, Acrobat Pro DC provides a preflight fixup explicitly for this. In Acrobat Preflight, access the Essentials library, select Single Fixups, and choose the Convert color to B/W fixup under the Color spaces, spot colors, inks group. Run that fix and this color issue is gone.

I also tried printing the two pages you provided directly from Acrobat Pro DC with no problem whatsoever.

But quite frankly, I don't think that the problem that they are complaining about has anything to do with color. There must be some PDF workflow product that they are using (not from Adobe) that simply isn't up to spec, possibly choking on the Opus music fonts possibly in combination with CID-encoding.

Perchance did you provide the InDesign files to these folks possibly allowing them to create their own PDF file?

Bottom line is that you will probably need to find some other vendor to do your printing.

Best of luck. There are plenty of hungry printers out there who are not incompetent!

- Dov

C

ceenchaAutor

Known Participant

So, they finally admitted it is font problem. I guess Amazon doesn't have access to Times New Roman? In any event, here's their solution:

After reviewing your files, our Technical Services team has indicated that the issue still lies with the fonts. Please open the PDF file and go to File > Properties. On the Font tab, there will be a list of all the fonts in the file. The fonts are embedded as a subset, this means only the characters used in the document are embedded. This is causing the font problems because the full character map is not available when printed.
The best solution to this is to outline the fonts. The Create Outlines command gets the font outline information from the font type, the characters are converted into outlines retaining all graphics formatting. This action will need to be taken in the parent InDesign file and outline the fonts in the file. The outline option can be found in the "Type" tab in the tool bar. Once the fonts have been outlined you can export or print as a New PDF (different name) and upload this file to your account.

- - -

So now I need to learn the best way to “ outline the fonts ”

They say “This action will need to be taken in the parent InDesign file and outline the fonts in the file.”

So I guess I outline the fonts using In Design, not Adobe Acrobat?

Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com

Legend

#1. If you do decide to convert the text to outlines, then follow Dov Issac's instructions above and perform that task in the latest version of Acrobat DC Pro. As stated before, do not muck with your InDesign file. (FYI, you received free advice from the world's leading expert in this topic, Dov Issacs of Adobe. Listen to him!)

#2. A few weeks back, my shop had a similar font encoding problem with Times New Roman used in an InDesign job (latest version on Mac). The client said she used the TNR that came with her Mac OS.

Her version of the TNR font wouldn't embed into the PDF, nor would it be packaged up with InDesign's Package utility. And the PDF didn't recognize our version of TNR to process the file.

Solution: We opened her InDesign INDD file, swapped out her TNR font for our version (TTF/OpenType version), and re-exported the PDF. Everything worked.

We never before had a problem like this with a font so ubiquitous as Times New Roman.

Maybe something has recently changed with the font licensing and embedding of TNR? I know on the Windows side, MS no longer installs Arial Unicode MS and has even stripped it off our Windows systems. (Arial Unicode MS is a special version of the regular Arial font.)

FYI, I doubt Amazon would want to swap their TNR for yours because this could cause text reflow problems. They would not want to be legally responsible for changing your document like that. That's why they're pushing this file back to you to fix.

|    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |

C

ceenchaAutor

Known Participant

I went through and took out ALL the Plantin fonts.

Resubmitted to Amazon — same exact errors happened.

So annoying & wrong.

C

ceenchaAutor

Known Participant

Here is what what they said:

This is, indeed, a font related issue. The fonts PlantinMTStd-Regular & PlantinMTStd-Italic cannot be used commercially due to font permission restrictions. Some restrictions prevent us from successfully producing a print file, some restrictions prevent the file from printing and some do what happened in this file. In this instance, the restrictions do not prevent file processing or printing but allows the system to re-map, or replace, with an available font. With remapping, the characters may not map, or match, exactly. This can only be corrected in the submitted file. The fonts will need to be replaced or the publisher must acquire a commercially viable version of the fonts. We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and hopes this information helps in the publication process.

Dov Isaacs

Legend

Our analysis was done on the two pages of the PDF file that you provided to us. If you provide me with the entire PDF file, we can ascertain what is going on. For the two pages you provided, there was no PlantinMTStd-Italic font used.

For the PlantinMTStd-Regular font that was embedded in the PDF file, analysis of the embedded font showed that it certainly has privileges for Preview and Print per below. Preview and Print embedding privileges are exactly what you need for embedding fonts in a PDF file for viewing and printing.

Maybe in the other pages of this file there are other font subsets that are problematic? That why we ask you to let us look at the entire file and on that basis, we may need to have a serious discussion with these “technicians.”

- Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

C

ceenchaAutor

Known Participant

Here is what they say now (sounds like garbage to me):

“After reviewing your files, our Technical Services team has indicated that the issue still lies with the fonts. Please open the PDF file and go to File > Properties. On the Font tab, there will be a list of all the fonts in the file. The fonts are embedded as a subset, this means only the characters used in the document are embedded. This is causing the font problems because the full character map is not available when printed. The best solution to this is to outline the fonts. The Create Outlines command gets the font outline information from the font type, the characters are converted into outlines retaining all graphics formatting. This action will need to be taken in the parent InDesign file and outline the fonts in the file. The outline option can be found in the "Type" tab in the tool bar. Once the fonts have been outlined you can export or print as a New PDF (different name) and upload this file to your account.”

I am … not able to upload the full content to the internet, because much is under our copyright—does that make sense?

C

ceenchaAutor

Known Participant

Mr. Dov Isaacs,

LULU also had the same problem, except that LULU's "preview" didn't show the errors.

Amazon's "preview" did show the error.

Thank you for your assistance—and please let me know if you have ideas how I can fix this issue.

5 seconds ago, I notified Amazon of this thread, and the technicians will be using this thread to see what the issue is—so everybody say hello to Amazon's technicians!

Dov Isaacs

Legend

You can have Amazon and/or Lulu's technicians contact me directly (via private message on these forums or via e-mail isaacs@adobe.com) and maybe I can help them sort through this.

- Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

Dov IsaacsRespuesta

Legend

On behalf of Adobe Systems Incorporated …

There is absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with this PDF file in terms of the fonts and how they are embedded. And as Steve pointed out, PlantinMTStd-Italic isn't even referenced by this PDF file!

The only “issue” that I can find is that the text is RGB black, i.e. RGB=(0,0,0) which depending upon the processes used by the print service provider might yield a “rich black” that might cause the text to be printed in a mixture of all four process colors. Skilled professional printers normally know how to set the RIP or DFE (digital front end for digital presses) to automatically convert R=G=B to grayscale, i.e. CMYK=(0,0,0,K). If you wanted to fix this issue, Acrobat Pro DC provides a preflight fixup explicitly for this. In Acrobat Preflight, access the Essentials library, select Single Fixups, and choose the Convert color to B/W fixup under the Color spaces, spot colors, inks group. Run that fix and this color issue is gone.

I also tried printing the two pages you provided directly from Acrobat Pro DC with no problem whatsoever.

But quite frankly, I don't think that the problem that they are complaining about has anything to do with color. There must be some PDF workflow product that they are using (not from Adobe) that simply isn't up to spec, possibly choking on the Opus music fonts possibly in combination with CID-encoding.

Perchance did you provide the InDesign files to these folks possibly allowing them to create their own PDF file?

Bottom line is that you will probably need to find some other vendor to do your printing.

Best of luck. There are plenty of hungry printers out there who are not incompetent!

- Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

MW Design

Inspiring

Looks like an encoding issue to me...Here's what pdfToolbox says about the actual embedding.

I can open that PDF, refry it and the errors don't occur. If the music and stanzas were produced in Sibelius, I would likely just convert the fonts to curves and be done with it. You will not be able to do much better at another POD. It is possible BookBaby is using better equipment/workflow, but it's been a while since I used them. They do cost more. But, like I mentioned, I would just take those Sibelius PDFs and convert to curves and make the single black plate if that's what they want.

Dov Isaacs

Legend

None of those informational notes from pdfToolbox (also available within Acrobat Preflight) should ever cause the type of problems noted, especially when they refer to the problem being a font that isn't even reference.

- Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

Steve Werner

Community Expert

You definitely have embedded the PlantinMTStd-Regular as shown as an Embedded Subset in this screen capture of the Font Properties in Acrobat:

PlantinMTStd-Italic is not listed as a used font in that particular file.

C

ceenchaAutor

Known Participant

Do you have any idea what could be causing the errors?

Steve Werner

Community Expert

No, but I'm completely unfamiliar with what kind of process you're asking Amazon and Lulu to do. It looks like they're trying to rasterize the music into a PNG image. It could be a bug in their conversion software but I really don't know.

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