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Question

text appears lighter, though no differences in settings

Forum|Forum|2 years ago
December 21, 2023
4 replies
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Since the most recent update, I have been having htis issue where some text in a line appears lighter. I have cleared all overides in the paragraph style, and there are no character style applied. It has happened in multiple documents, paragraph styles, etc. Last time (screenshots attached of the cursor in the two words), when I moved the text box to a different page it fixed it, but came back when I moved it back. This time, putting the small caps amerpsand in caused the text after it to become light (when I deleted the amsersand and the text after it, it was fine, but deleting the amersand alone retained the lightness). The differences in the lightness were retained when exported as well, so it is not a display issue.

Any ideas what this might be or how to fix it?

Thanks!

Screenshot_2023-12-20_at_3-58-02 PM_Redacted.pdf

Screenshot_2023-12-20_at_3-58-07 PM_Redacted.pdf

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rob day

Community Expert

Also, on the ampersand problem—the Arno typeface includes an x-height ampersand, so if I change the H3 style’s Case property to OpenType All Small Caps and clear the overrides the text is true small caps with the x-height ampersand. See attached

sampleAllSC.zip

Brad @ Roaring Mouse

Community Expert

Yes, this is all true, and making sure the openType Small Caps route is applied will solve this for the OP, but there's no reason that changing ONE character should alter the text following it. btw: the ampersand I used in my tests is NOT a faux small caps, it's a directly-selected alternative glyph. In fact, you can pick almost any glyph and it will cause the problem. Regardless, this affectation does NOT occur at all in previous versions, so this is specific to CC2024.

rob day

Community Expert

Hi Brad, I agree that it’s a bug—try selecting the entire paragraph and change the Language from Hebrew to English and all of the small caps display correctly as true small caps.

A work around without changing the Language is: change the Case of the H3 Paragraph Style to Open Type All Small Caps, select the entire paragraph and remove the overrides. See my attachment above.

rob day

Community Expert

Hi @Rachel.b.Jackson , There are two different ways to apply small caps—there is Small Caps from the Character panel flyout menu, and there is All Small Caps from Open Type.

In cases where the font doesn’t include true small cap glyphs, Character>Small Caps creates a faux small cap (scaled from the capital) . This was more common with Type 1 postscript fonts where true small caps had to be set from a separate "expert" font file, and were not included with many text faces.

Your text is set as a mix of Small Caps and Open Type>All Small Caps—if you set the entire line to Open Type>All Small Caps you will get real small caps. In recent InDesign versions real small caps will always be used if they exist, whether you select Small Caps or All Small Caps, but that’s not working with your text in CC2024.

I noticed the selection of Hebrew as the Language seems to be a cause—if I set the Language to English the entire line is set as true small caps.

The L in children maps to the true small cap glyph:

The L in families maps to the capital L, but it’s scaled to the x-height so its weight appears lighter:

If I select the entire line I can see the selection is mixed:

The entire line set as All Small Caps results in all of the glyphs set as true small caps:

Rachel.b.JacksonAuthor

Known Participant

@rob day

Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!

It is so odd. Because I use Hebrew a lot, I have the middle east version installed, and it defaults the language of all docs (and I believe therefore all paragraph styles) to Hebrew. I think I need to find a way to change that.

Happy new years!!

rob day

Community Expert

Just to clarify Language is a character property-- it would be possible set the 5 characters in the word hello as 5 different languages. You could change all of your document styles' Language property to something other than Hebrew, but there still could be overridden characters or words in the text.

Brad @ Roaring Mouse

Community Expert

You seem to have a mix of small caps and regular caps of Arno Regular in the same line:

"CHILDREN &" definitely matches the small caps glyphs of Arno Regular, but "FAMILIES DIVISION" matches Arno Regular in simple all caps. Why this is happening in the same line I do not know (can you upload a sample ID file of just that few lines of text on it?)

In the meantime, select the entire line and uncheck Small Caps and see what happens.