Weird ligature issues

I don't doubt that both of you see this. Nor do I dispute that it's a terrible problem for you. That said, this is either a bug so hard to trigger in terms of exact conditions in the file and ID that it may be impossible to find because it can't be reliably reproduced, or it is some other intermittent conflict that is completely localized. The only way this is going to get fixed, though, is if you are able to produce a file that shows the problem 100% of the time, or can determine a set of conditions that will cause it in any file 100% of the time so there is something to trace.

Also let me explain Peter,

This is not happening in every job. Since 9.10.11 till now we have seen the issue in a total of 9 Jobs. We on average have 170 NEW Jobs come thru our offices.

Now take in account that these Jobs can be open on an average of 6 times during the course of the life of the job between those months I am not even counting revised pass's of  older jobs that we get as well. This is a very small percent that it is happening too.

But as you know one mistake that gets printed can loose a client.

It has us trying to determine what is different in the files as well as how can we check to make sure this is not happening in the jobs before we send them to the client.

Matt, can you possibly share a sample of one of these files for testing on other systems?

Update,

I was able to get John as up as  JoÚ in the file all over the place.

1. )    The JoÚ was being treated as an actual ligature, I could search for John and it would find the JoÚ.
2. )    I turned ligatures off in the paragraph style and it reverted to John I then went and turned ligatures back on and it changed back to JoÚ
3. )    Further testing I have a machine that does have Indesign Cs5.5 on it we tried to replicate this issue on that machine so far it didn’t happen.
4. )    I also tried it on another machine with cs5 setup like the machine I have tested and have yet to produce the issue yet. Both machines are identical setup same OS same Indesign.

It’s a buggy issue but it is something to do with the ligatures in Cs5 as far as I have been able to deduce.

We are either going to try to upgrade all of our machines and work to Cs5.5 or we may only apply Ligatures to words with fi or fl's, or use the fi ffi ffl and fl caracter glyphs in jobs.

• The font is Adobe Garamond Pro Regular.

I found this post in another forum which does lead one to think the issue is related to Indesign

http://http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-59656.html

Now I am wondering if it can be a combination of issues that can create this problem.

I am trying to force a job to create this problem for me so I can examine it more.

So at this stage I am thinking I need to upgrade to cs5.5 and hope this issue was fixed.

I am also investigating how we set these jobs up that it has happened too if we picked up designs from older versions of Indesign what is common in all the jobs.

Peter David,

I think we are going to try to add to our Cache cleaning and AbobeFnt13.lst clearing to kill the current Indesign Preferences and replace it with a clean version.

I recall back in the day of Quark when we were a Quark house we would have to replace Quark Preferences since they would become corrupted.

It is a very annoying issue and we are working on ways we can detect the issue so we do not loose a client because of this problem.

We run PDF compares we try to look for the main characters it tends to swap out too.

I am trying to figure out how i can set something in indesign to run and check to see if this issue is in the job before we create the PDFs for the job.

Yes we are grasping at straws.

I've been following this thread because ligature weirdness would drive me nuts.  I may be grasping at straws, but I did notice that in the other thread ("Please help me to sort out this problem") there was brief mention of "AdobeFnt13.lst", "AbobeFnt13.ist", "AbobeFnt12.ist".  I assume the IST for LST swap is a simple typo in adding to that thread, but, quoting Peter from October and CS5.5 ALL "the adobefnt**.lst files (where ** stands for a two digit number)" need to be deleted while Adobe software isn't running, followed by re-starting the Adobe software if not the operating system.  I had to do this recently for the first time in many months (to get IDCS4 under Vista to recognize a font style) and zapped a few dozen adobefnt**.lst files.

David

This is what we thought as well some more history of the Problems.

We discovered the problem back in July

We orginally were running the following systems

Mac OSX 10.5 and ID-CS5 ver 7.0.0.355

We did not have this issue with CS4 jobs.

So we decided to do some upgrades in steps and we kept having the issue

Mac OSX 10.5.1 then we went to  10.5.6  and now we are 10.5.8

When we still had issue we changed Indesign ID-CS5 ver 7.0.3

We also purchased a new Machine this has

10.6.4 and ID-CS5 ver 7.0.4

At present the common issue seems to be Indesign Cs5 and what ever revision number. Our Next step will be to do an upgrade to cs5.5 to see if that has fixed the issue.

Message was edited by: Mattwbrt Changes OS 11.6 to 10.6

Peter,

We are not using any font managment tools at present.

We are placing a font folder for the jobs into the application>Indesign cs5 > fonts folder

before we load the fonts to this location we clear the .ist file out as well as clearing the system font caches.

see the below post I placed else where

I have been having an issue with Indesign and PDF files

We are getting font character "Glyphs replacing other characters"

Specs of the machines

Mac OsX=10.5.8

ID version=ID-CS5 ver 7.0.3

Acrobat Distiller version = 8.0

Fonts we have had this issue with

Sabon LT Std.

Garamond MT Regular

Fairfield LT STD

TimesLT Std

Palatino LT Std

Minion Pro Regular

Verdana Italic

Times New Roman PS

Characters that have been causing the issues.

io, il, hn, SY

The characters they are replaced with.

Ú Ÿ Õ Š Ỳ §

We run font cache cleaners such as Font Nuke, Font smasher and we even created our own from information found in other places where all the font cache's hide as well as suitcase's.

We tend to catch this issue in out PDF files we are actually but it does show up in the Indesign file, but you can close indesign and then reopen it and the issue is gone.

This lead us to believing it was a system font cache issue.

We process many jobs on a given day via 3 different machines that are setup to create PDF files.

We have a Process in place that before every job we clean the font cache and restart the machine.  Now I do not know if people are following this procedure all the time but we do have this issue appear like every 3 weeks when we get more work going thru the workflows.

I am looking for other Solutions to what this could be, would upgrading to cs5.5 help solve this issue? Could it be Indesigns Preference file getting bashed as well?  How can I better search for these characters.

We have been finding new characters it has replaced so its not always the same characters one time it was

joŸ =john

joÚ =john this was the latest.

Thank you for any responses.

Wechp,

This is similar to the issue we are having we get hn changing to Ú  or Ÿ

Did upgrading to cs5.5 fix this issue or are you still having the problem?

We also run cache cleaners before every job but this seems to pop up still.

Thanks

Matt