Participant

Question

Auto Stack JPG's in Front of Raw

Forum|Forum|12 years ago
March 31, 2013
7 replies
21618 views

Hi,

I shoot everything JPG plus Raw. I have a number of reasons why, but would rather not make this post any longer..... I would like to be able to view everything in my library with all JPG's stacked in front of the RAW with the same file name. I have been able to Auto-Stack by time (setting time to Zero Seconds) does this. The Problem is that the NEF's appear first in the stack. I want the JPG's first, always. I can figure out any way to do this automatically. It looks like I would have to manually change which file is first. I shoot thousands and thousands of files, I need to automate this. How can I do this?

Secondarily, does anyone know how I could apply a star rating to just the jpg and have it also apply to the raw file?

Thanks

C

Chris Lipscombe

Participating Frequently

I am with you. I shoot jpg+raw. I generally shoot things right in camera and there is no need to edit the photo. I would like to keep the jpg in front in case there is something I wanted to do with the photo in the future. If the photo needs editing then I will just toss the jpg and use the raw. I have found no way to automate this shortfall in the software.

johnrellis

Legend

"I would like to keep the jpg in front in case there is something I wanted to do with the photo in the future. "

You can do this with the Auto Stack command of the Any Source plugin:

1. In Library Grid view, go to a folder of unstacked raw and JPEG photos you want to stack. (If they're already stacked, select all of them and do Photo > Stacking > Unstack.)

2. Do the menu command View > Sort > File Name.

3. If the raw file extension precedes .jpg alphabetically (e.g. .cr3), then do View > Sort > Descending, otherwise do View > Sort > Ascending. This ensures the JPEGs are displayed before the corresponding raws.

4. Select all the photos, do Library > Plug-in Extras > Auto Stack, and select Photos Taken No More Than 0.08 Seconds After The Preceding Photo:

Unfortunately, the built-in command Auto-Stack By Capture Time won't work, because it insists on always putting the raw files first, regardless of how Grid view is sorted.

eckeph

Participant

This is the way I solve the first problem.

1. Make the stacks

2. Collaps all stacks

3. Filter by text on "RAF" (or whatever your raw file is called)

4. Select all

5. Chose "Move down in stack"

(Not sure about the name of the menu item since I have Swedish version)

R

reinseth

Participant

Thanks for the tip! Saved me a great headache. Keep in mind though, that Lightroom disables the menu item ("Move down in stack") if the selection is >100 photos. (i spent some time figuring out this, hopefully those who reads this won't)

C

cmatts

Known Participant

is there a way to add meta data / ratings etc the the entire stack - automatically.

(yes, still trying to work around LR not treating Raw+Jpg as same image)

areohbee

Legend

Relative Antics plugin (free by me) will do it - choose the "Auto-send metadata down in stack.." preset.

robcole.com - RelativeAntics

T

TimmyCrackCorn

Known Participant

I know I am a little late to the party, but ... First thanks to the original OP, I have the EXACT same workflow and feeling about LR. Second, I don't suppose any of this has been changed with the latest (or later) release of LR by any chance? Third, Rob ... I went to your links, but they appear to be dead. Is your site down temporarily or is this a more permanent thing? Anywhere else I can check out your plugins?

Thanks!

-Tim

Michael_Gbg_SE

Participant

I had exactly the same problem, I wanted to stack the raw+jpg files together with the jpg on top.

It is quite surprising that a thing like this can be a problem in a program like Lightroom. My first thought was to select all the jpg files and simply put them on top.

That is how I would expect it to work, but obviously it doesn't.

However, I think I may have stumbled over a solution by accident. Well it is more of a workaround rather than a solution.

I did the following:

I had all my jpg files in a folder and all my raw files (cr2 in my case) in a subfolder.

I used the option to copy the folder into my Lightroom library folder and then "added" the photos, (but I suppose it would be the same with a copy or move operation).

First I imorted/added all the jpg files into Lightroom. Then I manually moved the raw files to the same folder as the jpg files and made another import/add of the raw files.

After that I just stack according to capture time and the jpg file comes first, i.e. on top.

I suppose that when you import the raw+jpg at the same time, the raw file is imported first and therefore goes on top.

I haven't tested this thoroughly, but it seems to do the trick.

photomonk_

Participating Frequently

It works. Slightly different, but same idea.

Having already all RAW+jpeg imported, I just select RAW by filter (metadata->filetype->RAW), than removed them from catalog (not delete, just remove!) and than synchronised that folder.

After that stacking work as I want - raw+jpeg, jpeg on top.

photomonk_

Participating Frequently

Now I'm looking for way to set an attribute (for example reject or pick flags) on both RAW+jpeg when working with collapsed stacks...

areohbee

Legend

Here are a couple plugins you may find helpful:

http://www.robcole.com/Rob/ProductsAndServices/StackerLrPlugin

http://www.robcole.com/Rob/ProductsAndServices/RawPlusJpegLrPlugin

Rob

I

impactsystemsDTAuthor

Participant

Wow Rob! - At first glance these plug-in's look like precisely what I need! So excited. I'll report back once I've had a chance to use.

Thanks!

D

DaveDuprePhoto

Inspiring

I have a similar request but for a different reason. I'm about to move around 15,000 images over to LR4 from Aperture. Many of the earlier images are scanned from film JPG masters with minor edits. Starting once I got a camera that did RAW, I have all RAW files. I know I can't move the adjustments over, but what I would like to do is have the file pairs be such that the edited JPG is what is shown, but I have the option to go back to the original RAW or JPG if I want to start over with edits. Normally, I wouldn't do that, but I do occassionaly go back and redo a photo if I get a new tool, or I learn a new technique that could improve it.

Aperture provides a way to swap which file is the master (use JPG as master or use RAW as master). Does LR4 have something similar?

Since some of my files are JPG master + JPG edits, am I limited to the stack approach?

Is there a better way?

Note, I really would rather not keep everything in Aperture around because I'm guessing that will end up causing me headaches if I change things somewhere.

I

impactsystemsDTAuthor

Participant

Thanks for the posts. It seems to be confirming that my preferred workflow is not supported by lightroom.

One thought? Is there any solution involving conversion to DNG? It appears that I can store a complete Raw file in the dng AND the embeded JPG preview. This would work if the actual JPG is the same Large Fine (highest quality) jpg that I am getting when I shoot Raw + JPG. Is it? It appears I can embed a "Large" JPG but I'm not sure about the compression settings. Is it the highest quality and identical to the JPG's I'm getting when I shoot Raw + JPG?

If so, then the last question would be how to actually manipulate these files inside of lightroom. I suppose I can mess around a bit. Perhaps I'll compare the file size to determine if the file is the same quality and then see if I can separate if needed in my workflow.

Thoughts?

john beardsworth

Community Expert

What's the underlying purpose of the JPEGs? Is there a real need?

I

impactsystemsDTAuthor

Participant

Thanks for the question. Here is an example of why

Yesterday - Easter Egg Hunt at my House. I shot about 300 pictures. Raw plus Jpg. I want to go through them and I'll choose about 25-35 shots to document the event and perhaps make a photo book that I can keep for us and send to a few friends. I want the JPG's for this purpose. My JPG's generally look quite good. I do pretty good job with my in camera capture and settings. So, I want to be able to either spend zero time on these 25-35 shots or perhaps just 30 seconds to 1 minute on some or all to crop, vignette or some very quick adjustments, make my book and I'm done. My wife is happy, my friends are happy and I have somehting to remeber the event.

Then I will then have 2-5 really nice shots that I'll want to really work on. I might spend 10-20 minutes on each of these. I will generally process the raw file for the purpose. Occassionally the JPG's are just fine, so I'll just process those a bit further. I'll end of with a 2-5 "Hero" shots of the event. I might use these to add to the photo book or to print or add to my portfolio. Often I might just tag them to work tomorrow or next week or even next month when I have more time.

So I want to go select my 25-35 shots from the 300 with a simple pick off the JPG's, then the one's I really want the very best quality and versatility I.d like to be able to click on the stack (JPG in Front, Raw behind total of just 2 shots) and work the Raw file (the Negative). I don't ever have time to process more than a handful of Raw shots from any one shoot and frankly 95% of the time the JPG's look as good as the Raw files even after a fair amount of processing, so I really only need to process the Raw file on certain types of files. Having said that I am a very competent at processing and use combination of lightroom, photoshop, NIK, OnOne and Topaz. I just don.t need to do post capture and pre-out sharpening, cloning, healing, content aware fill, gradient filters, advanced color processing etc... on 98% of my files. The JPG's I create are good enough most all the time.

It seems that many people would want to work this way. I don't to rate all of the JPG's and the Raw's. I just want the Raw's (negatives) behind the JPG's so I can dive into them if I need to for the 5% or so of the files that I really want to spend time on. That doesn't mean I won't use the the other 95% (well more like 10%), it just meanst that the jpg's are just fine to email to friends or make photo books. Not every file that comes out of Lightroom is supposed to be the cover of Sports Illustrated. Raw and the JPG that I captured are the same file and it should be treated as such. Importing as the same file doesn't give you any access to the JPG so I don't see the purpose.

I

impactsystemsDTAuthor

Participant

Well, I've just found another flaw in this method of autostacking....If I'm shooting sports at 10 fps, it will stack 8-14 shots in one stack. I'm assuming this is because the lowest level of deliniation is 1 second and it reads 3093 and 3094 as being Zero Seconds apart because they are less than one second apart. Is there any possible way to correct this and have it recognized hundreds or tenths of a second?

I still can't believe that after all this time there is not a feature that let's you Autostack by file name. Everything with the same file name (regardless of extension) can be stacked together....seems so simple.

john beardsworth

Community Expert

Lightroom's stacking is really designed so the shot that you're going to use is on top of the stack and the others are hidden. This suits a studio workflow where you might shoot a number of alternative frames and only the best of the burst will be used.

As a result of this intention, you will experience varying degrees of dissatisfaction if you use stacking for other workflows such as the one you describe or for grouping HDR/panorama frames. So as you've found, auto stacking isn't controllable by file type, and there's no way to enter metadata and have it automatically cascade down the stack. You're not missing anything - you've hit a brick wall.

John

R

richardplondon

Community Expert

If one wants to sometimes see both the Raw and the JPG, and other times just the JPG, or just the Raw - view filters can do this more easily, on the fly. These can be applied indiscriminately to a folder-based view, or a collection-based view, or a smart collection - unlike stacking. Once a filter preset is named (such as, "JPG-only"), this name is immediately accessible in the Grid, or in the filmstrip, across all LR modules.

Then stacking can be used more for classification and selection purposes - in other words, for grouping and prime-candidacy according to picture subject / content only - which is an interactive matter, of necessity, IMO.

The challenge is, how to achieve that rapidly and robustly with minimal effort.

I would agree that auto-stacking of bursts probably needs a "maximum interval between exposures" rule, rather than a "taken during a given second" rule - though I don't recall using burst mode myself, this century (grin). I'd want to go the other way, and extend that auto-stacking interval to 60 seconds.

A "prefer JPG" or "prefer Raw" option for the auto-stacking feature, sounds to me like a very good idea though. The suggestion has already been made I believe, of a "show JPG" / "show Raw" / "show both" option, for the situation where Raw+JPG pairings are not otherwise set to separate on import.

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