Participating Frequently

Question

Edited Images Converting back to original state in library when restarting Lightroom .xmp?

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
January 14, 2022
5 replies
4551 views

I've been noticing this very intermittent issue occuring over the last year, so it's not based on an Lightroom version updates, and it hasn't phased me too much until now. So, I do some edits in lightroom and once I'm done the visible changes are seen via the viewing window and panel across the bottom. Occasionally I will reopen lightroom and go back to an previously edited image and it has been converted back to the original state of the raw file. I am aware that Lightroom doesn't actually adjust the raw image as it creates a sidecar .xmp file that partners up with the raw file, allowing virtual copies to be made and multiple edits to be created from the one base import file.

I know .xmp files exist but I don't know enough to fault find. I also assume that all the .xmp files are created automatically and stashed with the raw import files.

Would this issue be caused by the .xmp not being saved properly in it's auto mode?

Is there a way to manually prompt lightroom to save to the .xmp file as I could easily get into the habit of doing so?

Where are these .xmp files stored?

Could the .xmp files be getting created but not saving on shutdown of Lightroom? Again this only happens sprodically.

I'm not new to Lightroom as within the editing development but I am just learning more about the system lately and by doing some formal study that has brought this issue to mind.

Thanks

Phillip

Windows

G

gregoryk83600675

Participant

Why is this so complicated all I want to do is take. Few pictures edit them and sent to my friends?

dj_paige

Legend

Why is this so complicated all I want to do is take. Few pictures edit them and sent to my friends?

By @gregoryk83600675

Impossible to answer as you have not provided the slightest information. Please START A NEW THREAD and describe your problem completely and in detail. People will be happy to help you in a new thread. Do NOT continue your discussion in this thread.

dj_paige

Legend

Occasionally I will reopen lightroom and go back to an previously edited image and it has been converted back to the original state of the raw file.

Whatever is causing your problems, it is not related .xmp files. XMP files cannot cause this. The whole .xmp files discussion is off target.

I'll make a guess about the cause: you have (accidentally) imported the photo more than once, then edited one file, and then when you go back and find it unedited, it is a different version of the photo than the one you edited. Please try this: turn off filters, click on "All Photographs" and search for one of these files (where the edits have disappeared) by file name. (If you find more than one, then success!) If you only find one such photo, unedited, go into Develop Module and show us a screen capture of the History panel in the Develop Module.

S

six.less.than.zeroAuthor

Participating Frequently

Hi,

I have been using the program for last few weeks and keeping an eye out. I can confirm that once I've edited an image and imported it I'm done with the image and never need to go back in there to re-edit and export again. I have no practical purpose for doing that, I post my images to my website and then it's done with. One thing I have noticed now that I managed to catch this anomaly happen to one image is that the image only reverts back to the unedited file in the collection that I've been working in. I only import a small amount of images at a time straight into a collection.

So I had the idea of going into my 'all photographs' catalog and searching for the image and it was in fact still in there. Still leaves me with no idea why the images sometimes revert back to unedited in my collections but at least I'm not losing the edit like I originally thought, this is reassuring now.

dj_paige

Legend

I have been using the program for last few weeks and keeping an eye out. I can confirm that once I've edited an image and imported it I'm done with the image and never need to go back in there to re-edit and export again. I have no practical purpose for doing that, I post my images to my website and then it's done with.

This does not rule out the possibility that you accidentally imported photos more than once.

Still leaves me with no idea why the images sometimes revert back to unedited in my collections but at least I'm not losing the edit like I originally thought, this is reassuring now.

This does not rule out the possibility that you accidenttally imported photos more than once, and you edited one, and then later found the un-edited version.

I advised you to show us the History Panel of one of these unedited photos, this would give us the information to say I'm right, or to say I'm wrong; at if I'm right, it is information we need to help you further. Please show us a screen capture. Please use the "Insert Photos" icon; do not attach files.

Rob_Cullen

Community Expert

I thought the system would do, that the .xmp file is created and updated as the edit progresses.

Only IF you have the preference set to "Automatically write XMP".

And it may NOT happen immediately!

See the chapter- Auto Save into XMP

at- https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/whats-new/2022.html#metadata

Is the .xmp stored with the orignal raw files in the initial import destination?

No. Only when you change metadata and 'Auto save' is turned on, or manually save.

are they stored with the original raw files?

Yes, or embedded within DNG, TIFF, JPG file-types.

eg. My RAW (NEF) files with saved XMP:

I only export .tiff and .jpeg from lightroom so as you said they are embedded which makes sense.

No. An XMP is NOT generated or saved with/within Exported files! An Export to TIFF or JPG actually uses the editing metadata from the Catalog to create the 'new' exported file. There is no 'sidecar' or embedded XMP.

I don't keep a lot of images in catalogs,

Then you are not using the advantages of referencing ALL your photos in the Catalog. THAT is the 'power' of the Lr-Classic Data Management system. Sounds like you need to 'Brush up' on your understanding of Catalogs, and make better use of Collections and Keywords.

I'd like to think that by the time you get to the export image stage the .xmp creation has reached the end of the line and that .xmp shouldn't need further capturing of metadata in any manual method

Again- Only IF Auto-Save metadata is turned on. And yes, any XMP sidecar file created only contains the last known edits- hence its limitations as a 'partial' backup (for recovery purposes). Only the Catalog keeps History of ALL edits, Snapshots, Virtual Copies, Collections, etc, etc.

.xmp files your'e talking about are generated from export?

No. You do not get XMP files with Exported files.

I cannot explain why you may be seeing images 'Reset'. Often a user error eg. 'AutoSync' is turned on in the develop module (multiple selected images). Even one keypress [V] will toggle selected images Color <> B&W (Greyscale).

Multiple Catalogs also a problem!- Edits in one catalog do NOT (automatically) transfer to another catalog that references the same image file.

Always a suggested step is to reset the Preferences file when things go "glitchy"! PREFERENCES RESET

https://lightroomkillertips.com/writing-xmp-files-shouldnt/

Regards. My System: Windows-11, Lightroom-Classic 15.1.1, Photoshop 27.3.1, ACR 18.1.1, Lightroom 9.0, Lr-iOS 10.4.0, Bridge 16.0.2 .

DdeGannes

Community Expert

Have a look at the link below for info from Adobe help concerning writing to xmp in Lightroom Classic.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/metadata-basics-actions.html

However since you are now starting out in using Lightroom Classic it is more important to become knowledgeable about the Catalog file. Lightroom Classic default procedure is to store all the work you do in the Catalog file, while you are working in LrC it continuously reading and writing to the Catalog file. That is it default and primary function it does not require that you also store info in xmp files.

Writing info to xmp serves two basic functions it allows the information to be shared with, Photoshop, Bridge and Adobe Camera Raw, since those applications cannot read from or write to the Lightroom Catalog file and is also used as a secondary “backup” of the editing info. It is a second function which you decide if you wish to use.

Regards, Denis: iMac 27” mid-2015, macOS 11.7.10 Big Sur; 2TB SSD, 24 GB Ram, GPU 2 GB; LrC 12.5,; Lr 6.5, PS 24.7,; ACR 15.5,; (also Laptop Win 11, ver 24H2, LrC 15.0.1, PS 27.0; ) Camera Oly OM-D E-M1.

Rob_Cullen

Community Expert

First, let's assume you are talking about Lightroom-CLASSIC.

Now IMO- There is no necessity to save metadata to .XMP. (Although others advise it as a 'partial' backup method)

All editing and management of image files and metadata is stored in the Catalog.

You MUST backup the Catalog regularly!

"Is there a way to manually prompt lightroom to save to the .xmp"

Yes. Selected files- [Ctrl+S], Or MENU: Metadata > Save Metadata to file.

"Where are these .xmp files stored?"

Next to, and named the same as, Proprietary image files. (eg. Image01.NEF, Image01.XMP, etc)

Embedded within DNG files.

Embedded within JPG and TIFF files.

"go back to an previously edited image and it has been converted back to the original state of the raw file."

Are you sure you are editing the same image?

Are you Resetting the Edits in any way?

Are you images 'Stacked' -maybe hiding the edited version?

Are you working with Virtual copies?

More information about your workflow may help a better understanding.

Regards. My System: Windows-11, Lightroom-Classic 15.1.1, Photoshop 27.3.1, ACR 18.1.1, Lightroom 9.0, Lr-iOS 10.4.0, Bridge 16.0.2 .

S

six.less.than.zeroAuthor

Participating Frequently

Hi Rob,

Thanks for reply. Yes I'm talking about Lightroom Classic, and that's what I thought the system would do, that the .xmp file is created and updated as the edit progresses. I must admit I do backup the catalog weekly as that's what I have setup in the program, it just prompts me once a week on closing Lightroom.

"Is there a way to manually prompt lightroom to save to the .xmp"

Yes. Selected files- [Ctrl+S], Or MENU: Metadata > Save Metadata to file.

Okay thank you for the manual method I will look into that. Is the .xmp stored with the orignal raw files in the initial import destination? I can't see any .xmp files in these locations but I'm using windows and sometimes files can be hidden. I have hidden folders and files disabled for other reasons so I should see everything.

"Where are these .xmp files stored?"

Next to, and named the same as, Proprietary image files. (eg. Image01.NEF, Image01.XMP, etc)

Embedded within DNG files.

Embedded within JPG and TIFF files.

Going by this part suggests that the .xmp files your'e talking about are generated from export? Or are they stored with the original raw files? Are they before or after? Seems to me if the raw file isn't really getting edited and multiple edits can by done on the one raw file by using the sidecar then I should see the .xmp in the import destination folder? I only export .tiff and .jpeg from lightroom so as you said they are embedded which makes sense because I'd think the sidecar file would need to go with original. Feels like my sidecar file is disappearing, my motorbike is gliding along and I look down and my sidecar is missing 😉

For the final questions you asked, I'm 100% editing the same image when this occurs. No way I have reset the edit, I can't stress that enough as this has happened a dozen times in various ways. I did have some issues with Creative Cloud some months ago and I reinstalled light room and cloud to no avail (the issue was that creative cloud would corrupt and ask me to reinstall), in the end a person from Adobe remoted into my system and did some things, basically used a different method of installing creative cloud and didn't have any more issues.

In all cases this 'reset' didn't happen for hours or even days or weeks, it's just something I happen to notice at any time. I don't keep a lot of images in catalogs, my lightroom is very lean on purpose so I'm not imagining this, and I do very niche little shoots in many collections so I'm constantly seeing the edited images in the scroll bars, I less than rarely go in and open up previous edits once I've exported but I recognise the edited thumbnails, then suddenly I notice one has been reset when there's zero chance I did anything to it. I even exported the images in question so I have a .jpeg and .tiff in my storage which was fine and proof to myself that this problem occured. I edited this image in the morning then went back later to purely to make it a greyscale version to post online, I needed a greyscale of that image I had already edited but it was back to the original raw file.

This has never happened to any images that are stacked, the only time I end up with stacks is when I send the image to say Topaz DeNoise, or edit it in Photoshop then those programs return the image as a .tiff file along with the edits so that .tiff file becomes the new working file now as the raw thumbnail files doesn't contain the digital procressing, all the digital procressing edits are, touch wood, flawless so far I've never lost any data. This issue I'm talking about only occurs when there is one raw file, not even a virtual copy the pure original, edits have been done in Lightroom only, the images have been exported as a .tiff and a .jpeg once completed as I have a strict workflow which gets the job done it doesn't matter what is exported but I'd like to think that by the time you get to the export image stage the .xmp creation has reached the end of the line and that .xmp shouldn't need further capturing of metadata in any manual method. Like the gift wrapping stage before you hand over, technically speaking exporting is merely saving your work physically as a now static image, yet it should hold that .xmp up to date as of that moment.

Keen to see what you think, any other information required hit me up.

Thanks

Phillip

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