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Question

Export from LrC sRGB - too Red - Exporting to AdobeRGB seems to be the most accurate

Forum|Forum|5 years ago
October 19, 2020
7 replies
1000 views

Hi All,

It seems I've found a bug that I've noticed lately when I export images using certain presets/sliders that saturate the reds/oranges. They're coming out too red when I export in sRGB. When I upload and check in Firefox, the images look fine, but when I post to Instagram or Facebook, they have the red tint.

This is driving me nuts, so I decided to check by putting the clips in a DaVinci Resolve timeline and comparing the different colours, I've exported sRGB, Adobe, and Prophoto. I even took screenshot using the snipping tool. Ironically, the snipping tool looks exactly how I see it in LR/PS, both in Resolve and Firefox. sRGB looks too red in both Firefox (colour management set to 1) and DR. Prophoto is too flat/desaturated, and AdobeRGB is the most accurate-ish of the 3.

What gives, all the common wisdom on the Internet is export to sRGB, but I've check each file on various devices and platforms (iPhone, other computers, Instagram, FB, Google Photos). With the exception of Google Photos in Firefox where all 3 look the same, the sRGB exports come out too red.

My monitors are calibrated and are generally accurate, just recently I'm not sure what happened. Any thoughts are welcome, thanks in advance.

This topic has been closed for replies.

Per Berntsen

Community Expert

I'm familiar with these settings, but this is on Android, where about:config doesn't work.

I came across this page https://developer.android.com/training/wide-color-gamut

where it says that Android 8.0 (API level 26) introduced color management support for additional color spaces besides standard RGB (sRGB) for rendering graphics on devices with compatible displays.

It seems that Opera and Chrome are taking advantage of this support, but not Firefox.

Todd Shaner

Legend

I just checked your test page on my Samsung Note Pro runing Android 5.1.1, which is the last update it will accept. All of the images display correctly (i.e. the same) in FireFox and Chrome and look very close to the color on my desktop NEC PA272 wide gamut display.

EDIT: I just checked about:config on my Samsung Note Pro and it's working and gfx.color_management settings are set the same as my desktop. I'm running FF 68, but appears FF 79.4 removed access to about:config.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1300001

Per Berntsen

Community Expert

It's interesting that you get correct colors with such an old version of Android.

I charged my old Samsung Galaxy Tab S that I hadn't used for years, and I'm seeing the same thing as you.

This device is running Android 5.02 and FF 62.02.

So it seems that browser color management has been around for some time.

I know nothing about the inner workings of Android, but it seems that there is a display profile that gets used by the browsers.

Per Berntsen

Community Expert

Android does (as far as I know) not have any color management, but colors are quite accurate on my Huawei phone in Chrome, Opera and Firefox.

And surprisingly, my test page images display identically (in Chrome and Opera, but not in Firefox), which I don't think they did before. I rarely use web browsers on my phone, so something has changed since the last time – either the browsers, or Android, or both.

Todd Shaner

Legend

"and surprisingly, my test page images display identically (in Chrome and Opera, but not in Firefox), which I don't think they did before."

Reference the untagged image on your test page you need to set FireFox about:config with the below settings. If gfx.color_management.mode is set to 2 (default) color management is only enabled for tagged images.

Per Berntsen

Community Expert

According to https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide

IE is now down to 2.5% usage world wide, and in addition there is 0.9% Edge legacy (pre color management) .

Edge was introduced with Windows 10 in 2015, and was also made available for Windows 7 and 8, that originally came with IE.

Windows 8 was not a popular OS, and Microsoft stopped supporting Windows 7 in January this year, so I think it's safe to assume that IE usage will keep dropping.

J

Jao vdL

Community Expert

I hope so. Still seeing a lot of IE on my websites. Lots of corporate environments still require it for compatibility with in house apps. Security nightmare but what else is new. It's interresting if you look at overall share of all browsing platforms it's a game of Chrome and Safari and a distant third in firefox: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share. How times have changed. People overwhelmingly now browse on mobile platforms instead of PCs. I don't believe Chrome on Android is color managed completely (i.e. I don't think it tries to correct for the display gamut) but Safari on iOS definitely is.

J

Jao vdL

Community Expert

Correction just looked at my stats (hadn't done that in a long time) and there is basically no IE left as you indicated (yes!). Top desktop browsers are Chrome, Safari, Firefox, and a bit of Edge. On mobile, it is Chrome, Safari and a bit of samsung browser.

Per Berntsen

Community Expert

@Jao vdL

If you are uploading to instagram, realize that instagram strips the color profile, so your images will look oversaturated on a wide gamut display when using sRGB. They will look normal on normal displays. Facebook does the same. Unfortunately, iPhones and many newer computers have wide gamut displays nowadays. When you have unmanaged images they will usually look incorrect. Only Firefox with the right setting and Safari do this right nowadays. Every other browser and many apps such as the instagram app just sends untagged images straight to your display and if that display is wide gamut, reds will be oversaturated.

Chrome and Opera will assign sRGB to untagged images, as well as to CSS colors.

I have created a test page myself, including one untagged image, and all the images on this page display identically (and correctly) in Opera, Chrome, Firefox and Edge on my Windows 10 computer with a wide gamut monitor.

http://perberntsen.com/misc/technical/colorprofiles.php

I don't use social media, but if all they do is to strip the profile, images on Instagram and Facebook should display correctly in these browsers as well. (as long as they were created in sRGB)

J

Jao vdL

Community Expert

That's awesome to hear. They all look identical in Safari on Mac OS X and a wide gamut monitor too. We might finally be getting to color management bliss if only people stopped using IE.

D Fosse

Community Expert

We may already be there. IE hasn't been the standard browser in Windows since Vista. It still exists, buried deeply in Windows 10, but you really have to know your way around to find it. The major hurdle was getting full color management in Edge, and now it's there.

Firefox doesn't have much of a market share these days, but ironically it's the least functional browser today - ironic because it was the pioneer; the first browser with a "working space" of sRGB so that even untagged material and CSS would display correctly. The problem is that you still have to do something to enable it.

Todd Shaner

Legend

"I'm just baffled as to why my files have recently been having this red bias when I previously had no issues uploading sRGBs to IG/FB/web before."

FireFox version 77 broke gfx.color_management.mode and stopped using the monitor profile. This appears to happen with some of the FF major updates (xx.0). I can confirm that FF 81.0.2 is working properly, but had this issue with FF a few months ago. If you were using an earlier version with the issue then yes all of a sudden the over-saturated reds were back!

D Fosse

Community Expert

That's right, Firefox color management was broken for a while, but is OK now. But you still need to set it to mode 1 so that it also color manages untagged material.

Chrome seems to be very erratic. It's supposed to color manage everything out of the box, no special settings, but we've seen a great deal of posts in the Photoshop forum where Chrome doesn't color manage at all, for no reason that anyone can figure out.

Believe it or not, but the best and most reliable option now seems to be Microsoft Edge. Yes, they finally got it right and it now uses the actual monitor profile. I still haven't bothered to migrate everything, but I'm testing it from time to time and so far it looks very good. Now I'm just waiting for them to overhaul "Photos" as well.

J

Jao vdL

Community Expert

If you are uploading to instagram, realize that instagram strips the color profile, so your images will look oversaturated on a wide gamut display when using sRGB. They will look normal on normal displays. Facebook does the same. Unfortunately, iPhones and many newer computers have wide gamut displays nowadays. When you have unmanaged images they will usually look incorrect. Only Firefox with the right setting and Safari do this right nowadays. Every other browser and many apps such as the instagram app just sends untagged images straight to your display and if that display is wide gamut, reds will be oversaturated. The link to gballard's site Todd posted above shows this very clearly if you want to check.

Todd Shaner

Legend

This has all of the symptoms of a wide gamut display with viewer apps that aren't monitor ICC profile aware. DaVinci does not use the monitor profile so you will see oversaturated reds when viewinmg even sRGB profile image files with it. FireFox can be setup to use the monitor profile, but you say it's not displaying images correctly. Here are the settings I use:

What model display are you using and how is it calibrated?

S

stevens62478826Author

Participant

Thanks, the only app it's showing correctly is in Firefox (I have the same settings as you), specifically when I upload all 3 to Google Photos.

I have an Asus MG28U and a Dell U2311H as my secondary. They've both been calibrated with the iOne Display.

My issue is, which profile should I export with if I want to upload to Instagram for example. Lately, certain images are coming out redder than what appears on screen when I use sRGB, which should work for any web based applications no, I'll test out Adobe and Prophoto on Instagram to see which comes out best.

Todd Shaner

Legend

"I use sRGB, which should work for any web based applications no, I'll test out Adobe and Prophoto on Instagram to see which comes out best."

Images to be uploaded should be exported with sRGB color profile, which is the safest for the Web since some sites aren't color managed.

"Lately, certain images are coming out redder than what appears on screen when I use sRGB, which should work for any web based applications"

What vsersion of FireFox are you using? The latest is 81.0.2. Test FF at this site.

http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/srgb_wide_gamut.html

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