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M
masplin
Known Participant
August 31, 2021
Answered

Highlight clipping different between NEF and TIFF

  • August 31, 2021
  • 6 replies
  • 1664 views

Today I noticed that a NEF converted to a TIFF behaved completely differently on the highlight clipping on the histogram in Develop.  Adding 0.5 to exposure in each  (NEF was +0.2 before conversion) showed different amounts of red highlight burning on the image (NEF more), but dramatically different on the histogram. I had to add almost 1.5 stops to the TIFF before the histrogram flashed overexposed.   The histograms look identical on first conversion, but you can see the red chaneel on the NEF is a lot more pronounced with the +0.5 and highlight warning is flashing. 

 

Can someone explain this as not something I have seen or noticed before, but quite suprising.  Basically the highlight warning on the TIFF is way out

Thanks for any advice. 

Mike

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer Todd Shaner

Here you go

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2l0fnfqs78t26d8/AAAPXPwf-QQrbE16BMz57WmGa?dl=0 

 

Thanks


I checked your DNG file with your Camera Standard setting and with Adobe Standard and the clipping level differences were about the same. So we can rule out Camera Standard profile as the cause. Checking the DNG file further I see that you have a Local Adjustment Brush applied as below. Again this changes the settings adaption characteristics, which is causing the difference you are seeing between the NEF and TIFF White clipping level. With the Adjustment Brush removed the White clipping point for the DNG (i.e. NEF) file is Exposure +2.23 and for the TIFF +2.73. So much closer to the same. This is expected behavior and nothing to worry about. Enjoy!

 

6 replies

J
Community Expert
Jao vdLCommunity Expert
Community Expert
September 3, 2021

This is likely caused by an interaction with the raw rendering profile and where in the rendering chain the profile (and any tone curves and lookup tables in the profile) are applied vs the exposure compensation. The exposure compensation is done very early in the rendering chain, so I wouldn't be surpried if the profile and its built-in curves and lookup table are applied after the exposure compensation. In fact I know this is true as you can often see subtle tone shifts especially when using camera matching profiles when you use the exposure compensation. There is a trick to make these profiles 'untwisted' so they don't do this anymore: https://sites.google.com/site/chromasoft/dcpTool . You used camera standard here so that would be consistent as the camera matching profiles are known to not be hue invariate. When you apply exposure compensation to a tiff, nothing like that happens. The source color space of the tiff is completely irrelevant. Camera raw/Lightroom simply converts the image to its internal linear prophoto and applies the exposure compensation and other slider settings. 

TheDigitalDog
TheDigitalDog
Inspiring
September 2, 2021

The TIFF is rendered in what color space? 

It isn't the same as the raw, that's for sure. That and the Tone Response isn't the same. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
Todd Shaner
Todd Shaner
Legend
September 1, 2021

This may be helpful:

 

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/tone-control-adjustment.html

 

    Todd Shaner
    Todd Shaner
    Legend
    September 1, 2021

    The LrC Basic panel controls are image adaptive. The Highlights and Shadows controls when set to 0 apply a small amount of black and white clipping recovery. Because of this a TIFF file created with all controls set to 0 the image data will be different than the NEF file's raw data. In fact a raw file will often display Whites and Black clipping with all controls set to 0 that can be fully recovered using the Highlights and Shadows controls. A TIFF created from such a file (with 0 settings)will have that clipping permanently applied to its image data, which is NOT recoverable.

     

    Also make sure you are exporting to ProPhoto RGB profile and 16 bit, which is what LrC uses internally.

      M
      masplinAuthor
      Known Participant
      September 2, 2021

      Ah seems you are saying the distribution of pixels in the TIFF has already been truncated so less extreme values. Therefore requires a bigger movmeent in expsoure to hit the clipping warning. 

       

      So my TIFF images looks supper bright, but there is no highlight clipping so does that mean its bright, but not actually burnt out? 

       

      Thanks for link very useful

      Todd Shaner
      Todd Shaner
      Legend
      September 2, 2021

      When you export a raw file to TIFF in LrC or use Edit in PS the resulting TIFF should look exactly like the raw file inside LrC with whatever settings you have applied.  If it doesn't then you have some other issue we need to investigate. Just make sure your Export settings and Edit In PS preferences are set to ProPhoto RGB and 16 bit.

        GoldingD
        GoldingD
        Legend
        September 1, 2021

        Zoom in to at least 1:1

        I suspect Smart Preview is getting in the way

         

        although, histogram indicates, in both, that you are viewing original.

         

         

        selondon
        Community Expert
        selondonCommunity Expert
        Community Expert
        September 1, 2021

        {Moved from Lightroom Cloud to Lightroom Classic Forum}

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