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ag80078004
Participant
December 21, 2017
Question

How to save RAW metadata "picked" photos to RAW and JPEG. How to stack/unstack RAW/JPEG

  • December 21, 2017
  • 2 replies
  • 2393 views

TWO QUESTIONS (1) Metadata handling in RAW->JPEG and (2) how to show RAW and JPEG simultaneously.

Q1.

I am now working in raw for first time after working with jpegs.

I can export RAW photos with metadata, but "flagged" photos loose their flag/rejected status when I export to jpeg files.  Lightroom does not treat a flag as savable metadata element, am I right?

Some metadata is exported into created JPEGS like keywords.

Weirdly however, while the new "exported" jpegs retained all the metadata but the RAW photos were now without any metadata: all keywords had been stripped.  I say this because I then moved the RAW photos and JPEGS to a new folder and executed a fresh import even though the files were duplicates.  The new jpegs had the metadata but the RAW photos had NO METADATA.  Not only had I lost all of the flags or "picked" photos, but the keywords were also lost.  Why is this?  The photos exported saved keywords but the RAW files themselves were blank?

Q2

After the tedium of creating jpegs I now have both RAW and JPEG.  Lightroom allows such files to be stacked or viewed separately BUT only if they were imported as stacked or separate photos.  Is there a way to toggle between stacked/unstacked?  If not, I then have to delete stacked files to view side-by-side or delete side-by-side to view as stacked.  Each import risks loosing metadata at at minimum will lose the flagged/picked hierarchy.

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    2 replies

    Just Shoot Me
    Just Shoot Me
    Legend
    December 21, 2017

    ag80078004  wrote

    TWO QUESTIONS (1) Metadata handling in RAW->JPEG and (2) how to show RAW and JPEG simultaneously.

    Q1.

    I am now working in raw for first time after working with jpegs.

    I can export RAW photos with metadata, but "flagged" photos loose their flag/rejected status when I export to jpeg files.  Lightroom does not treat a flag as savable metadata element, am I right?

    Some metadata is exported into created JPEGS like keywords.

    Weirdly however, while the new "exported" jpegs retained all the metadata but the RAW photos were now without any metadata: all keywords had been stripped.  I say this because I then moved the RAW photos and JPEGS to a new folder and executed a fresh import even though the files were duplicates.  The new jpegs had the metadata but the RAW photos had NO METADATA.  Not only had I lost all of the flags or "picked" photos, but the keywords were also lost.  Why is this?  The photos exported saved keywords but the RAW files themselves were blank?

    Q2

    After the tedium of creating jpegs I now have both RAW and JPEG.  Lightroom allows such files to be stacked or viewed separately BUT only if they were imported as stacked or separate photos.  Is there a way to toggle between stacked/unstacked?  If not, I then have to delete stacked files to view side-by-side or delete side-by-side to view as stacked.  Each import risks loosing metadata at at minimum will lose the flagged/picked hierarchy.

    (2) To have both a RAW image and a JPG of that same image to be imported at the same time you have to select, check, the option to "Treat JPG files next to RAW as Separate photos" in the LR Preferences on the File Handling tab.

    Never had that happen on my system. RAW files always retain all metadata even after exporting to JPG or TIFF or sending to PS for other edits.

    Q1) Why in the world would you want to export an image you have placed the Rejected flag on. The reject flag is so you can easily delete those images because you don't want them.

    Right the Flag status does not carry over to a New image. Which is what that JPG is from exporting the RAW image. The Flag badge is so you can easily pick out certain images for further actions.

    If you want to NOTE an image for some reason, not so good, Good, Very Good, and Excellent, try using the Star Rating system, 1 -5 Stars. Stars do carry over when exporting.

    Or just to highlight an image try the Color Labeling system.

    Q2) Not sure what you mean. Have a look at the options in the Filter bar at the top of the Library module screen. If you don't see the filter bar hit the \ key to show or hide it.

    Make sure the Sort: (Order) is set to "Capture Time" to place RAW images and JPGs created by exporting RAW files next to one another.

    If set to Added Order they won't be right next to one another as the JPGs were added to the catalog file after the RAW files were added.

    A
    ag80078004Author
    Participant
    December 21, 2017

    Thanks for your help.  A follow-up, if I might....

    Yeah, of course it would be silly to retain/export "rejected" pictures.  I was just including "rejected" as an example to make explicit that it is the lightroom flag system that does not export as metadata.  Too bad though, because I have long relied upon flagged photos as a way of pulling out best shots out of a larger pool--THEN a very few of these I mark with stars. 

    Fortunately over the years I have come to apply a keyword "slideshow" to all "picked" photos.  This slideshow metadata is a piece of metadata that does save.

    As you are very helpful and know your way around lightroom, IF I MIGHT IMPOSE UPON YOU ONE MORE MOMENT.  If I could, I would like to explain the particular workflow issue I have with RAW.

    I am fully converted the the virtues of shooting in RAW. Check. 

    If I shoot and post-process and metatag in RAW I then will export to JPEG files. Metadata will travel to the JPEG files (except the flags). Check.

    BUT when I then move the created JPEG and original RAW files to a new folder, the RAW files lack not only the flags but also the metadata.  This is the nub of my issue.  (My RAW files by the way are Nikon NEF files). I originally asked about expanding/collapsing related RAW/JPEG files because that would serve as a workaround.  If such stacking/linking worked easily I could sort photos from keywords (now in JPEG but not RAW) and then apply said keywords to their progenitor NEF/RAW files.

    I cannot figure out why my NEF files are not storing the metadata, even though there was enough of a connection for the metadata to be exported to the created JPEG files.  I am hot to get this all figured about before migrating completely to RAW files because I do not want to invest time/energy in a metadata system that is lost when a catalogue breaks down.  I am looking for portability.

    You see, ultimately I am interested in long-term archival purposes.   I ultimately store my work product in JPEG for space and to preserve metadata--particularly as it seems that RAW files do not allow for metadata to be permanently attached to a root file.  (Am I wrong?).

    Sure, the lightroom universe is wonderful and self-contained and allows for nondestructive edits.  But I am looking for long-term storage solutions that can outlive a platform.  I would like for my photos to be stored on my hard drive and in the cloud, and have the metadata travel with the file for reconstitution in different platforms.  Having a sidecar datafile is inconsistent with this vision.

    Any further thoughts or advice?

    Just Shoot Me
    Just Shoot Me
    Legend
    December 21, 2017

    IIRC the Flag status is retained in the LR Catalog file (and possibly in a RAW file XMP sidecar file if you have that option checked) but not in Metadata of the file itself. When you Export you are creating a New file.

    The Star rating is actually seen in the Properties of the file itself as shown by Windows Explorer.

    I haven't worked with Nikon NEF files in over 10 years. But as far as any file retaining the original Metadata, EXIF and IPTC data, that should never be stripped unless you, the user, is doing that.

    Copying or Moving a file should not have any affect on whether the original metadata stay with the file or is stripped.

    Open the File manager program for the OS you are using and right click on one of those RAW files and select Properties, Windows, or Get Info, Mac, and see what shows.

    I've been using LR since it came out in late 2006 or 07, since version 1, and have been using the same exact catalog from then, although updated as LR versions required, and have never had a catalog break down of any type. That has been on at least 4 different desktop computers and 2 notebook computers (Actually the Dell i8200 I bought in 2003 still runs and has some version of LR installed and still working with a copy of my original catalog from 2006 or 07).

    I'm not a proponent of Cloud storage so I never use it. I backup my important data to external drives and keep a copy of all of it on at least 2 different computers and most of the time 3 different computers.

    Whatever seems to work for you is your choice.

    I only keep JPGs if I think I might need them to send in an email. Otherwise I never convert, export, or save JPGs.

    If I plan on printing a file I send it to PS, convert it to a TIFF file and then either print it myself, smaller prints up to 11 x 17, or send to a Pro printer in my area for larger prints.

    Neox99
    Neox99
    Legend
    December 21, 2017

    CTRL+G stacks the selected photos.

    SHFT + CTRL +G unstacks the selected group

    Additionally: A group will have a little icon in the upper left of the photo indicating the number of photos in the group. Click that little icon and they will unstack.

    A
    ag80078004Author
    Participant
    December 21, 2017

    Helpful, yes.  It still requires a bit of manual work. 

    Ideally I would like lightroom to automatically stack/unstack NEF/JPEG photos taken at the same date or with the same name.  Your suggestion allows for me to manually select a pair (or more) of photos and turn them into a stack.  Helpful on an individual level but with hundreds of pictures, I need an algorithm or for lightroom to be more thoughtful. 

    At present if I bulk select all of my photos in a folder and CTRL+G--> lightroom will stack all of the photos together.  This is not lightroom's fault...it is only doing what its programmers told it to do...but it would be nice if Adobe recognized this issue.  Indeed others have commented on the board about the problem with seeing RAW/JPEG photos side-by-side and stacking.  At present lightroom allows for a binary system: you have to choose unstacked/stacked before importing a photo card.  There is no going back without a fresh import.

    But then this gets to my metadata issue.  Metadata is not perfectly saved for JPEGS and--it seems with RAW photos.  I have looked a little into the metadata issue with RAW photos and it seems metadata is saved in a sidecar rather than on the file itself.  This is sort of fine...but when I reimport RAW photos the metadata is lost from a fresh import.

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