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C
Charles Ruscher
Participating Frequently
April 19, 2023
Question

Major color shifts with the new AI denoise in Lightroom 12.3

  • April 19, 2023
  • 6 replies
  • 4697 views

Look at all the green addedd to the background very odd and not uniform so diffcult to fix without masking.  This was applied at level 40.   Colors did not shift on model except on the hair which was simular t the background.  Model's face blurred on purpose.  Just reporting findings not reallt looking for how to fix it.   

 

 

This topic has been closed for replies.

6 replies

Taudris
Taudris
Participant
February 8, 2024

The green color cast comes from the Raw Details step. If you open the Enhance dialog and only enable Raw Details, you get intense colored speckles all over the darkest areas of the picture. The speckles then go on to damage the output of the Denoise (by shifting colors) and Super Resolution (by adding even more colored speckles).

 

For uncompressed RAW out of my Sony a7C, the speckles are primarily green, but also some cyan/blue, and occasionally red.

 

Interestingly, in the preview, the speckles change in presence/quantity/intensity depending on where in the frame you are looking.

 

I haven't tried to science out what exactly makes the problem occur, but for me it mainly happens with images that contain large areas that are underexposed by 4+ stops.

 

The order of operations doesn't appear to make a difference in the end result. Adobe probably only recommends denoising first because of the impact it can have on the judgments you make during editing.

 

I have an NVIDIA RTX 4090 GPU with the latest drivers. I've never noticed a difference between driver versions.

 

Example of the speckles in the Enhance preview:

 

I've attached an ARW file from my Sony a7C that exhibits this problem.

    N
    Nick26949096gh7o
    Participant
    December 13, 2023

    I have the same issue. Most of the time (but not always), Enhance AI Denoise shifts colors. Sometimes slightly, sometimes pretty badly. I’m using it on Windows 11 with the latest Lightroom/Windows/Nvidia RTX 3060Ti drivers. Any ideas on what I can do about it? Thanks in advance

    johnrellis
    johnrellis
    Legend
    December 13, 2023

    1. Had you applied any Develop settings before Denoise?

     

    2. Please do the LR menu command Help > System Info and copy/paste the entire contents here so we can see exactly which versions of hardware and software LR thinks you're running and important LR options that are set.

    N
    Nick26949096gh7o
    Participant
    December 13, 2023

    Hi! 
    Yes, there are some minor settings adjustments. And Denoise was the last step 
    Here is the LR Info: 

    Lightroom Classic version: 13.0.2 [ 202311290958-8ff975ea ]
    License: Creative Cloud
    Language setting: en
    Operating system: Windows 11 - Business Edition
    Version: 11.0.22621
    Application architecture: x64
    System architecture: x64
    Logical processor count: 20
    Processor speed: 3.6GHz
    SqLite Version: 3.36.0
    CPU Utilisation: 4.0%
    Built-in memory: 32666.2 MB
    Dedicated GPU memory used by Lightroom: 6673.6MB / 8038.0MB (83%)
    Real memory available to Lightroom: 32666.2 MB
    Real memory used by Lightroom: 5948.3 MB (18.2%)
    Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 13118.4 MB
    GDI objects count: 973
    USER objects count: 3662
    Process handles count: 4810
    Memory cache size: 354.3MB
    Internal Camera Raw version: 16.0 [ 1677 ]
    Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 5
    Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2,AVX,AVX2
    Camera Raw virtual memory: 1478MB / 16333MB (9%)
    Camera Raw real memory: 1773MB / 32666MB (5%)
    System DPI setting: 144 DPI (high DPI mode)
    Desktop composition enabled: Yes
    Standard Preview Size: 3840 pixels
    Displays: 1) 2560x1440, 2) 3840x2160
    Input types: Multitouch: No, Integrated touch: No, Integrated pen: Yes, External touch: No, External pen: Yes, Keyboard: No
     
    Graphics Processor Info: 
    DirectX: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti (31.0.15.4633)
    Init State: GPU for Export supported by default
    User Preference: GPU for Export enabled
     
    Application folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic
    Library Path: C:\Users\nikit\Pictures\Lightroom\Lightroom Catalog-v13.lrcat
    Settings Folder: C:\Users\nikit\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom
     
    Installed Plugins: 
    1) AdobeStock
    2) Flickr
    3) Luminar Neo
    4) Nikon Tether Plugin
     
    Config.lua flags: None
     
    Adapter #1: Vendor : 10de
    Device : 2489
    Subsystem : 663019da
    Revision : a1
    Video Memory : 8038
    Adapter #2: Vendor : 1414
    Device : 8c
    Subsystem : 0
    Revision : 0
    Video Memory : 0
    AudioDeviceIOBlockSize: 1024
    AudioDeviceName: $$$/dvaaudiodevice/SystemDefaultAndEffectiveDeviceName=System Default - Speakers (Realtek(R) Audio)#{comment}DVAAU-4201250: Open the audio hardware preferences page.
    AudioDeviceNumberOfChannels: 2
    AudioDeviceSampleRate: 48000
    Build: LR5x83
    Direct2DEnabled: false
    GL_ACCUM_ALPHA_BITS: 16
    GL_ACCUM_BLUE_BITS: 16
    GL_ACCUM_GREEN_BITS: 16
    GL_ACCUM_RED_BITS: 16
    GL_ALPHA_BITS: 0
    GL_BLUE_BITS: 8
    GL_DEPTH_BITS: 24
    GL_GREEN_BITS: 8
    GL_MAX_3D_TEXTURE_SIZE: 16384
    GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE: 32768
    GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 4
    GL_MAX_VIEWPORT_DIMS: 32768,32768
    GL_RED_BITS: 8
    GL_RENDERER: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti/PCIe/SSE2
    GL_SHADING_LANGUAGE_VERSION: 4.60 NVIDIA
    GL_STENCIL_BITS: 8
    GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation
    GL_VERSION: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 546.33
    GPUDeviceEnabled: false
    OGLEnabled: true
    GL_EXTENSIONS: GL_AMD_multi_draw_indirect GL_AMD_seamless_cubemap_per_texture GL_AMD_vertex_shader_viewport_index GL_AMD_vertex_shader_layer GL_ARB_arrays_of_arrays GL_ARB_base_instance GL_ARB_bindless_texture GL_ARB_blend_func_extended GL_ARB_buffer_storage GL_ARB_clear_buffer_object GL_ARB_clear_texture GL_ARB_clip_control GL_ARB_color_buffer_float GL_ARB_compatibility GL_ARB_compressed_texture_pixel_storage GL_ARB_conservative_depth GL_ARB_compute_shader GL_ARB_compute_variable_group_size GL_ARB_conditional_render_inverted GL_ARB_copy_buffer GL_ARB_copy_image GL_ARB_cull_distance GL_ARB_debug_output GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float GL_ARB_depth_clamp GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_derivative_control GL_ARB_direct_state_access GL_ARB_draw_buffers GL_ARB_draw_buffers_blend GL_ARB_draw_indirect GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex GL_ARB_draw_instanced GL_ARB_enhanced_layouts GL_ARB_ES2_compatibility GL_ARB_ES3_compatibility GL_ARB_ES3_1_compatibility GL_ARB_ES3_2_compatibility 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    C
    Charles RuscherAuthor
    Participating Frequently
    April 21, 2023

    UPDATE....  First off I will say Lightroom Denoising is the best currently available for many reasons and what was shown in this post in my opinion is directly related to the extreme under exposure of the photo to "protect the highlights" in the lantern.   In "normal" exposures the Denoise is working wonderful.  I followed all the suggestions in this and other posts regarding drivers and the Camera Raw GPU Config.txt these things had no effect that I could determine therefore I doubt this is related to hardware, drivers or config files.  Althought maybe related to the camera Nikon D800 which is quited dated althought still preforms well. 

    After experimentation with photos taken as the same time with different exposures of only a single stop brighter from the one previously shown the difference is monumental with just little color shift which is easily correctable and that brighter photo is still quite underexposed.   Therefore, there seems to be a threshold (beyond 2.5 stops & 100 shadows) from an under exposed image from a Nikon D800 where an added color cast happens, and the more under exposed the photo the more color cast.

    Thanks to Jao vdL for leading the way to understanding.

    And thanks Adobe for this feature quite impressive!

     

      J
      Community Expert
      Jao vdLCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      April 22, 2023

      If you get close to the zero point, there are all kinds of issues that can cause color shifts like this. Many (especially older) cameras have a noise bias in one of the color channels due to their amplifiers not being perfect and that can shift the color in the deep shadows, or the camera does some preconditioning of the raw data in the very deep shadows such as applying a threshold. It is also possible that the profiles Lightroom uses have a bias in the shadows. Here is an example from my old D600 that has a bit of reddish bias in the shadow noise that I have always been annoyed about. The Lightroom denoise cleans it up beautifully! Also, notice the amazing recovery of all the hair detail. Just astoundingly good.

       

        J
        Community Expert
        Jao vdLCommunity Expert
        Community Expert
        April 20, 2023

        What are your develop settings on this image? The noise in the background seems extremely heavy for ISO 400 and there is considerable pattern noise in the image which would indicate the background was very heavily pushed by positive shadows and blacks and perhaps local masked edits. Not saying that this is bad to do or anything but might help chase down the issue. 

          C
          Charles RuscherAuthor
          Participating Frequently
          April 20, 2023

          Jao I think you are on to someting here.  The image was exposed to keep the light in the lantern from blowing out which resulted in having to raise the expostue up considerably 4.12 stops and 100 shadows.  This might be a pattern with others experiencing the black & white or color shifts where in underexposed pushed images challanges the AI.  I am shooting with Nikon D800 which is ISO invarable and a light painter which often causes me to push the shadows and/or exposure.  I love the idea of the AI Denoise for exactly the reason of quick showdow noise reduction.   I typically set the ISO low beacause of the ISO invarable but I might change the way I shoot and set higher ISOs.  Thanks for the insight!

          johnrellis
          johnrellis
          Legend
          April 21, 2023

          "DirectX: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 (31.0.15.2824)"

           

          To build on @drtonyb, most problems with LR's AI features are caused by older graphics drivers.  Before making conclusions about the cause of this issue, update to the latest Studio driver:

          https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/204243/en-us/

          D
          drtonyb
          Legend
          April 19, 2023

          You have written that your GPU is an NVIDIA RTX 3050, but your system info states that you have an NVIDIA RTX 3070.

           

          Your driver is not the latest version. Please update and try again.

           

          I have an NVIDIA RTX 3060 and have no issuses with Denoise on Nikon NEF files.

            C
            Charles RuscherAuthor
            Participating Frequently
            April 21, 2023

            I have updated the drivers Nvidia Studio version and the color shift still happens. 

            Rikk Flohr_Photography
            Community Manager
            Rikk Flohr_PhotographyCommunity Manager
            Community Manager
            April 19, 2023

            Please give us the model of your GPU. 

            Thanks!

            Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org
            C
            Charles RuscherAuthor
            Participating Frequently
            April 19, 2023

            Nivda RTX3050

             

            Lightroom Classic version: 12.3 [ 202304101834-a085245c ]
            License: Creative Cloud
            Language setting: en
            Operating system: Windows 10 - Home Premium Edition
            Version: 10.0.19045
            Application architecture: x64
            System architecture: x64
            Logical processor count: 20
            Processor speed: 3.4GHz
            SqLite Version: 3.36.0
            CPU Utilisation: 1.0%
            Built-in memory: 65345.7 MB
            Dedicated GPU memory used by Lightroom: 5971.1MB / 8031.0MB (74%)
            Real memory available to Lightroom: 65345.7 MB
            Real memory used by Lightroom: 8709.1 MB (13.3%)
            Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 16173.4 MB
            GDI objects count: 1383
            USER objects count: 4244
            Process handles count: 398329
            Memory cache size: 0.0MB
            Internal Camera Raw version: 15.3 [ 1451 ]
            Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 5
            Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2,AVX,AVX2
            Camera Raw virtual memory: 2144MB / 32672MB (6%)
            Camera Raw real memory: -13MB / 65345MB (0%)
            System DPI setting: 96 DPI
            Desktop composition enabled: Yes
            Standard Preview Size: 2560 pixels
            Displays: 1) 2560x1440, 2) 1920x1080
            Input types: Multitouch: No, Integrated touch: No, Integrated pen: No, External touch: No, External pen: No, Keyboard: No

            Graphics Processor Info:
            DirectX: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 (31.0.15.2824)
            Init State: GPU for Export supported by default
            User Preference: GPU for Export enabled

            Application folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic
            Library Path: C:\_LR-CATA\CFR-Master-2-v12.lrcat
            Settings Folder: C:\Users\Arendel\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom

            Installed Plugins:
            1) AdobeStock
            2) Flickr
            3) HDR Efex Pro 2
            4) Nikon Tether Plugin
            5) ON1 Resize AI 2023
            6) SmugMug
            7) Tourbox

            Config.lua flags: None

            Adapter #1: Vendor : 10de
            Device : 2488
            Subsystem : 404e1458
            Revision : a1
            Video Memory : 8031
            Adapter #2: Vendor : 1414
            Device : 8c
            Subsystem : 0
            Revision : 0
            Video Memory : 0
            AudioDeviceIOBlockSize: 1024
            AudioDeviceName: $$$/dvaaudiodevice/SystemDefaultAndEffectiveDeviceName=System Default - Headset Earphone (Corsair HS60 PRO Surround USB Sound Adapter)#{comment}DVAAU-4201250: Open the audio hardware preferences page.
            AudioDeviceNumberOfChannels: 2
            AudioDeviceSampleRate: 48000
            Build: LR5x19
            Direct2DEnabled: false
            GL_ACCUM_ALPHA_BITS: 16
            GL_ACCUM_BLUE_BITS: 16
            GL_ACCUM_GREEN_BITS: 16
            GL_ACCUM_RED_BITS: 16
            GL_ALPHA_BITS: 0
            GL_BLUE_BITS: 8
            GL_DEPTH_BITS: 24
            GL_GREEN_BITS: 8
            GL_MAX_3D_TEXTURE_SIZE: 16384
            GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE: 32768
            GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 4
            GL_MAX_VIEWPORT_DIMS: 32768,32768
            GL_RED_BITS: 8
            GL_RENDERER: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070/PCIe/SSE2
            GL_SHADING_LANGUAGE_VERSION: 4.60 NVIDIA
            GL_STENCIL_BITS: 8
            GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation
            GL_VERSION: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 528.24
            GPUDeviceEnabled: false
            OGLEnabled: true
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